Why is this even an issue?

**ZenMaster** · Nov 27th, 2009 12:39 AM

I just joined this website. Looks great for debating :)

However, while I'm sure some of you are qualified to speak on the issue, I am *just* as sure that most of us do NOT have degrees in biology or microbiology or anthropology or whatever else. I certainly don't. All those posts "Explain THIS creationists/evolutionists/theists/atheists" just sound so incredibly juvenile.

Why is there a whole forum dedicated to Creationism versus Evolution? Leave the study and debate of the particular phenomena up to the people who actually study it first hand.

***Blu-ray*** · Nov 27th, 2009 7:54 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

Why is there a whole forum dedicated to Creationism versus Evolution?

Because the creator(s) of the forums decided to create one.

***proffett*** · Nov 27th, 2009 8:09 AM

By that logic, why have a science section since most of us are not scientists...

Why have a religion section since most of us are simply believers/non-believers and not theologians.

Why have a political section most here are just observers and not actively involved in the socio-political game.

And philosophy? Fuck that right? Who here is Aristotle or Socrates?

Debate is open to anyone with or without formal training in the area in which one is debating. More times than not if someone comes in here with junk science or backwards philosophies they are verbally spanked all over this board. Trust me, there are people educated enough to speak on these topics... And those who aren't well... Let's just say it becomes obvious.

***Blu-ray*** · Nov 27th, 2009 8:22 AM

Originally Posted by proffett

By that logic, why have a science section since most of us are not scientists...

Why have a religion section since most of us are simply believers/non-believers and not theologians.

Why have a political section most here are just observers and not actively involved in the socio-political game.

And philosophy? Fuck that right? Who here is Aristotle or Socrates?

Debate is open to anyone with or without formal training in the area in which one is debating. More times than not if someone comes in here with junk science or backwards philosophies they are verbally spanked all over this board. Trust me, there are people educated enough to speak on these topics... And those who aren't well... Let's just say it becomes obvious.

Exactly...

***Traveler*** · Nov 27th, 2009 10:57 AM

First you say this place is great for debating and then you say we are not qulified to do it.

Go figure

***Blu-ray*** · Nov 27th, 2009 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Traveler

First you say this place is great for debating and then you say we are not qulified to do it.

Go figure

To whom are you speaking to Traveler? There is a difference between debating the forum make up and that of Creationism and Evolution. If MM wants a forum subsection devoted to the topic of Creationism Vs Evolution he may do so. After all he is the proprietor of this establishment. Is he not?

***JenaS62*** · Nov 27th, 2009 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Blu-ray

To whom are you speaking to Traveler? There is a difference between debating the forum make up and that of Creationism and Evolution. If MM wants a forum subsection devoted to the topic of Creationism Vs Evolution he may do so. After all he is the proprietor of this establishment. Is he not?

Traveler was addressing the OP.

***James Random*** · Nov 27th, 2009 1:03 PM

Why is this even in the Religious Section. Oh right, we don't have a stupid question section.

***Blu-ray*** · Nov 27th, 2009 2:24 PM

Originally Posted by JenaS62

Traveler was addressing the OP.

Got it......

***Cyranothe2nd*** · Nov 27th, 2009 7:26 PM

Because the facility to see agency in unrelated events has evolved over millions of years into the human brain and still has some vestigial usefulness. Just not in this subject.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Nov 27th, 2009 7:38 PM

First you say this place is great for debating and then you say we are not qulified to do it.

Go figure

lol... I tried to give you positive rep for this trav

**ZenMaster** · Nov 28th, 2009 12:54 PM

A science debate section I understand.

Most of us are not scientists, but I understand having a science section since even the most highly qualified physicists don't quite understand gravity, dark energy, quantum physics, and other issues on the forefront. These issues are becoming available to common people because of the attention they're getting in science publications.

Most of us are not theologians, but I understand having a religion section since a god or gods are, by definition, outside of what we *can* know about him, her, it, or them regardless of one's qualifications, so there's no possible standard by which we can judge who is "more correct" than someone else.

Most of us are not politicians, but I understand having a politics section since politics just describes the nature and workings of the social structures of which we are actively a part of regardless of whether you want to be a part of it or not.

Most of us are not professional philosophers, but I understand having a philosophy section since .. well, see my response re: the religious section.

The Creationism versus Evolution forum is one I don't understand. The questions to which the professionals do not know the answer are not really accessible to the average person. Those questions can become accessible only with training and education, otherwise most people don't even know enough to know what questions to ASK, let alone debate about.

**ZenMaster** · Nov 28th, 2009 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Blu-ray

Because the creator(s) of the forums decided to create one.

THAT answer, at least, I can accept

***DontBeAfraid*** · Nov 28th, 2009 1:45 PM

The Creationism versus Evolution forum is one I don't understand. The questions to which the professionals do not know the answer are not really accessible to the average person. Those questions can become accessible only with training and education, otherwise most people don't even know enough to know what questions to ASK, let alone debate about.

one. Creationism is not complicated... a third grader could recite all of its complexities...

Two: evolutionary biology is quite accessible to the average person. While you might need to be a trained professional to explain HOW we are creating viruses from scratch or what vectors we are using for gene manipulation you do not need to be a pro to understand the mechanism by which evolution operates or what causes genetic drift.

***proffett*** · Nov 28th, 2009 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

A science debate section I understand.

Most of us are not scientists, but I understand having a science section since even the most highly qualified physicists don't quite understand gravity, dark energy, quantum physics, and other issues on the forefront. These issues are becoming available to common people because of the attention they're getting in science publications.

Most of us are not theologians, but I understand having a religion section since a god or gods are, by definition, outside of what we *can* know about him, her, it, or them regardless of one's qualifications, so there's no possible standard by which we can judge who is "more correct" than someone else.

Most of us are not politicians, but I understand having a politics section since politics just describes the nature and workings of the social structures of which we are actively a part of regardless of whether you want to be a part of it or not.

Most of us are not professional philosophers, but I understand having a philosophy section since .. well, see my response re: the religious section.

The Creationism versus Evolution forum is one I don't understand. The questions to which the professionals do not know the answer are not really accessible to the average person. Those questions can become accessible only with training and education, otherwise most people don't even know enough to know what questions to ASK, let alone debate about.

I'm sorry I simply don't understand your rationale. How is, for example, quantum physics any more debatable than evolution/creationism? There is an entire realm of Quantum physics that boarders on speculation, pseudo science and metaphysics. Whereas say, creationism vs Evolution the facts are pretty straight forward. Creationism says one thing that is available to any lay person via the Bible and the principles of evolution are comprehensible by any biology student.

I'm sorry I'm just trying to understand your logic Zen and I'm a glutton for debate ;)

**ZenMaster** · Nov 30th, 2009 8:13 PM

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

one. Creationism is not complicated... a third grader could recite all of its complexities...

Two: evolutionary biology is quite accessible to the average person.

<etc.>

Hmmmmmmmmmmm..

Okay, I'll buy that.

proffett .. Quantum Physics does indeed have some brutally thick forests of theory and math. On the other hand, the Double-Slit experiment, which ought to be the most measly, simplest, easiest-to-predict experiment of all time has results that utterly defy logic.

Being familiar with the mathematical tools ought to provide insights unavailable to the average person .. but that experiment sounds like it requires a type of thinking that is so far out of the box that maybe traditional logic doesn't apply. It's like nothing we've ever seen in the universe before modern times.

***HindSight*** · Dec 1st, 2009 12:08 PM

I do have a degree in anthropology. Perhaps you dont have the desired scientists on this thread because they are too busy debating in places that will get their research funded.

No monitary gain, just lots of brain strain: a promise of A.O.

**Cartesiantheater** · Dec 27th, 2009 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

I just joined this website. Looks great for debating :)

However, while I'm sure some of you are qualified to speak on the issue, I am *just* as sure that most of us do NOT have degrees in biology or microbiology or anthropology or whatever else. I certainly don't. All those posts "Explain THIS creationists/evolutionists/theists/atheists" just sound so incredibly juvenile.

Why is there a whole forum dedicated to Creationism versus Evolution? Leave the study and debate of the particular phenomena up to the people who actually study it first hand.

Lycanox is a microbiologist, and B.Nye. had an undergraduate degree in biology before moving on to optometry, and his wife had a PhD in biology. Further, donniedarcko was researching in biology as a graduate student before he disappeared from the forums.

The point being that AT ONE TIME there were actual experts in the field of biology on this forum, and that happens to be when this sub-forum was created.

That should answer your question.

However, DBA is right. Creationism can be understood by children and the mechanisms of evolution are entirely accessible to someone willing to spend the time to learn. There isn't much arcane mathematics involved to grasp the general idea, just a lot of reading and studying (and in the case of creationists, a willingness to follow the experiments and theory first hand rather than through filters designed to make the theory appear weak).

**DaveyDoes** · Dec 27th, 2009 12:30 AM

I always thought the point was that people just talk, debate and give their opinion (for which you don't need a degree) to lead others in doing just the same...talking and giving opinion. If I wanted straight, uncorrupted facts...I could read a text book and there would be no need for a forum such as this at all.
For all intent and purpose it's an electronic coffee shop with everyone sitting around BS'ing and hopefully walking away feeling positive about the experience or at least encouraged to learn more.

***Traveler*** · Dec 27th, 2009 1:38 AM

Actually its more fun to get Deadbeat pissed by pulling the rug out from under his idol

***Assassin X*** · Dec 27th, 2009 7:10 AM

I'm just here for French Fry Fridays. Best fries EVER!

**Cartesiantheater** · Dec 27th, 2009 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by DaveyDoes

I always thought the point was that people just talk, debate and give their opinion (for which you don't need a degree) to lead others in doing just the same...talking and giving opinion. If I wanted straight, uncorrupted facts...I could read a text book and there would be no need for a forum such as this at all.
For all intent and purpose it's an electronic coffee shop with everyone sitting around BS'ing and hopefully walking away feeling positive about the experience or at least encouraged to learn more.

Bullseye for the most part.