IRS gets control of Church in US

[Traveler]

This is a political issue, not religious

xxxxxxx

Internal Revenue Service: PASTORS MUST BE ORDAINED BY THE IRS-(Excerpts) by Dr. Greg J. Dixon-Pastor, Indianapolis Baptist Tabernacle

The most prominent and successful certified public accountant firm in the nation today, that specializes in keeping churches out of trouble with the Internal Revenue Service, is now boldly saying to the pastors of America that they not only have to be “ordained by God, but also the IRS.”

They also say that the IRS is dictating terms to the churches by declaring in clear and no uncertain terms that, “The government doesn’t want your Bible, they want your checkbook!” In seminars all over the US, Chitwood and Chitwood of Chattanooga, Tennessee, is repeating this startling announcement to pastors and church leaders. Without so much as a blush, Michael Chitwood, the main speaker, says, besides the above quotes, “Pastor, if you don’t get your house in order, get ready, you are going to have a jail ministry” as he practically screams out to those present as to what pastors and church leaders must do to avoid jail time and the confiscation of church property by the federal government.

Besides giving the pastor his job description, which is based on the Roman Catholic model of worship and polity, the IRS is demanding many other things that are clearly designed to make the IRS Commissioner the new head of the churches in America Some of these demands are as follows: The church must collect a Federal ID (Social Security) number from visiting evangelists, missionaries, preachers and singers before they invite them to the pulpit. They must give a Form 1099 to any minister who receives up to $600 in a years time, which includes missionary support. If the ID is not received, the church leaders must withhold a jeopardy assessment of 39% on the spot and send it to the IRS. They must agree to the IRS definition of benevolence. They cannot deal in cash at any level, but must deposit all offerings into a checking account and write checks for every purpose. This means, of course, that the church, in order to conduct its ministry, has to have an Employer Identification Number which must be provided by the IRS by filing Form SS-4 which a true New Testament church could never do and remain obedient to her Lord. In fact, church leaders would have to misrepresent the church as a religious organization rather than a N.T. Church to do so. Other things that pastors and church leaders are required to do are to be an informer against their members and also to preach only IRS prescribed sermons. Also, all fund raising material must be submitted to the IRS for their approval

The job description for pastors is a list of nine specific sacerdotal duties which again is a Roman Catholic definition meaning sacred. The Catholic Church teaches that these sacraments, when administered by a priest, are essential to ones salvation. This is totally opposite to the Bible definition which states that baptism and communion are memorials of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that they follow salvation. The nine duties are: baptisms, weddings, serving the Eucharist (the Catholic sacrament of communion), teaching , spiritual counseling, christenings or baby dedications, administration of church affairs and the regular conducting of worship services. If the pastor does a substantial number of these things, he will receive very lucrative tax breaks. This is in clear violation of the scriptures concerning the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes which the Lord Jesus said that He hates (Rev. 2:6, 2:15). It is the setting up of a privileged class of clergy with benefits from the state that lay members do not receive. Others who minister to the church in the area of music, youth, children, education and other areas of responsibility don’t qualify.

This is consistent with what officials of the IRS told Attorney David Gibbs of the Christian Law Association (CLA) in 1984 when they said that their definition of church is “once per week adult worship.” They said that they did not consider such ministries as Sunday school, Christian school, busses, youth camp, vacation Bible school, nursing home, etc., to fall within their definition of the word “church”. This Gibbs/IRS meeting took place in Washington, DC at the time that the so called champion of Christian liberty was hammering out a compromise with the Dole Committee (Sen. Bob Dole-R-Kansas) in the US Senate to bring the churches 1000 into compliance with the FICA tax (social security) laws. This was the deal that would eventually cause the raid and seizure of the Baptist Temple 17 years later. It’s too bad that Gibbs didn’t sound the alarm at that time and call the Bible believing pastors together for a summit meeting to map out a strategy that could have possibly saved our churches and ministries. The unregistered church pastors tried, but unfortunately our words fell on deaf ears. The so called “big” preachers were too busy receiving their tax deductible gifts and building their empires to be concerned over the future of God’s work. Now the enemies of Christ have sprung the trap and it is too late.

These requirements should be intolerable enough by just the fact that the IRS would even dare to suggest duties for pastors, but to impose under the penalty of imprisonment and confiscation of property the same responsibilities of Roman Catholic priests is nothing short of naked tyranny. Obviously, the inquisition has returned and the pastors and churches of America are not even aware that it has arrived. The raid and seizure of the property of the Baptist Temple is the direct result of the pastors and church refusing to bow down to this new wave of Catholic terror that has come upon our land. The issue in the Baptist Temple case isn’t taxes as the IRS, with the help of the media, has led the people of Indianapolis and nation to believe. The issue is very simple. Will the churches of America bow down to the IRS in violation of the first commandment, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me,” or will they bow down to the Lord Jesus Christ? Our Lord said, “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon” (Matthew 6:24). The purge is now on as we hear of churches and ministries being closed on a regular basis. But there is still no evidence that the pastors have awakened from their stupor.

The benevolent requirements for churches are beyond atrocious. They are five in number: food, clothing, housing, medical emergencies and utilities. The church cannot help with transportation or auto repairs and a myriad of other things that churches have historically done on a regular basis. The church cannot make loans to the pastor, members, or others which churches have always done. Obviously, they want to make sure that the money lenders get their profits even from the poor. Can you imagine the government of the US limiting a church as to its duties in regarding charitable activity? There is no subject in the Bible that is nearer to the heart of God than charity. According to the apostle James, it is the test of pure religion (James 1:27). Paul the Apostle declares that charity is of higher value even than preaching and sacrifice (I Cor. 13:1-3). For the churches to debase such a high and noble service to Christ by submitting its administration to the wicked IRS is beyond belief. How will the preachers of America give an account of caving into this coercion by an abusive Bush administration who is continuing with the policies of those before him? How will church leaders face the Lord Jesus at the Judgment Seat of Christ when He asks them why they violated His clear commands concerning alms giving? He said, “Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men, Verily I say unto you, 1000 They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.” But now the churches are required to get the permission of the IRS before helping someone other than in the manner and purpose that they approve. Then records will have to be kept for the IRS so that the publicans can make sure that the church is in fact following their guidelines. And, of course, they expect church leaders to report this alms giving to the IRS so that they can even gouge the poor for more tribute. And all of this so the churches can keep their tax exemption and the people can get their precious tax deductions for their tithes and gifts. As James Dobson’s organization (Focus On the Family) said when challenged, “It’s just good stewardship.” Thievery, good stewardship? How sad.”

It may be that the churches have now gone too far. When they begin building their dynasties on the backs of the poor our Lord, no doubt, will be swift in His removal of their candlestick. He said to the church at Ephesus, “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works: or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent” (Rev. 2:5).

All Churches Now Required to Join IRS Super Church

Two other developments concerning IRS control of churches has risen recently that should literally send shock waves through the religious community. First, while the churches are arguing doctrinal positions among themselves, and won’t even spit on each other for the most part, the IRS has now developed its own super church. Independent Baptists in particular pride themselves in their anti-ecumenism. No fundamentalist preacher worth his salt would be caught dead at the local church federation meeting where he has to rub shoulders with a charismatic or liberal preacher. However, they don’t think twice about paying a large fee to go to a Chitwood or CLA seminar and sit next to one of these religious outcasts to learn how to be a good IRS approved church and pastor.

It is now a fact that in order to get and keep the tax-exempt status a church must agree that all religions are equal. The new Application for Recognition of Exemption Form 1023 Schedule A for Churches (Rev. September 1998) demands a declaration to this effect with the following words at point #3: “Does the organization require prospective members to renounce other religious beliefs or their membership in other churches or religious orders to become members? Yes__ No__. If “Yes,” describe.”

It doesn’t take much intelligence to figure out where they are going with this. In order to be considered a legal church (tax exempt) in America, the church or religious organization will have to declare that all religions are equal. They will also have to declare that they do not believe that their doctrinal position only results in converts to their faith having eternal life. They must renounce this narrow exclusivist position. Maybe we now know why Billy Gr 2000 aham, Robert Schuller, Pat Robertson, and other TV preachers have been making such fuzzy remarks about adherents of other religions, though sincere, going to heaven without receiving Christ. In that tax exemption is government subsidy, according to the Supreme Court in the Bob Jones University case, it is now clear that the US government will not support any religion that clings to the narrow minded belief that salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. Remember? “Come Shekels, Come Shackles.” The world church isn’t coming; it is already here, and the preachers don’t have a clue as they go merrily along hand in hand with the Great Harlot to the wedding with the anti-Christ. (Rev.17).

US Government Through the IRS Outlaws Preaching on Second Coming of Christ

One of the reasons the IRS gave to Texe Marrs‘ Living Truth Ministries for removing their tax exempt status is as follows: “Much of the material you disseminate promises to address possible conspiracies or threats, either from individuals, groups or various agencies, against Christianity, freedom or other rights. This is evident from a review of your newsletters and order forms. The titles and promotional materials are designed to sensationalize and grab the readers attention. They usually imply that the works will expose certain prominent groups, individuals, politicians or government agencies as being part of or linked to some threat or conspiracy.” One of the titles that the IRS gave as an example included “Bible Prophecy and The Conspiracy.”

Any grade school child in Sunday School knows that you can’t teach or write on Bible prophecy without dealing with the second coming of Jesus Christ. But just as the Russian pastors under communism were forbidden to speak on this subject, we are now coming to the same place in our beloved land. It is obvious that if one believes in the literal return of the Lord Jesus Christ that they will be considered a domestic terrorist. In that the Lord Jesus will destroy wicked government upon His return in great glory and break the back of Gentile world rule, this message isn’t popular with the in-for-hells and the high-heeled-belles that run our country today. Of course, they don’t believe that He is coming, but they believe that we who do will be involved in what they call self-fulfilled prophecies and try to hasten His coming by blowing up everything in sight. Further evidence of this type of anti-Christ thinking surfaced recently when a brochure put out by the FBI in Phoenix, Arizona, named “potential domestic terrorists” that law enforcement should be aware of. One of those groups is “Doomsday/Cult-Type.” Obviously, this would include all Bible believing preachers and churches in America. We not only believe that there will be a literal doomsday, we believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will bring the doom when He comes (Rev. 6:12-17). It won’t do any good to claim that your church is not a “cult”. The IRS definition fits the average Bible believing church to a tee

Many have asked if we can actually show them this in the law. Our answer is no, we can’t because you won’t find a specific law that says that you can’t preach on the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in America today. That’s because they don’t have to write a law to gain the same effect. All Congress has to do is to give an outlaw agency like the IRS a carte blanche privilege of making up their own so-called laws as they go along. The churches agreed to this when they signed their tax-exempt contract. They said that they would obey all laws, federal, state and local, presently and in the future. But they apparently didn’t read the fine print. The new churches filing for tax exemption must agree to the following: “The Corporation or organization shall have no power to take any action that would be required for a tax exemption under Internal Revenue.

Code Section 501(c)(3) and related regulations, rulings, and procedures.” It is now the “procedure” of the IRS to refuse tax exempt status to those churches that will not agree that all religions are equal and who refuse to join through tax exemption, the world church. Also, preaching on Christ’s coming is taboo.

For those churches which are foolish enough to believe that Sec. 508 of the IRS code allows an automatic exemption for churches, need to read it again. It doesn’t say “exemption,” it says, “…churches have a mandatory exception.” The exception is from filing a Form 1023 to make application for not for profit status. Here is the kicker. Churches have to abide by the same rules that those that do file for this privilege. And if they do not, the IRS can, and most assuredly will, remove their tax exemption. The only thing missing is the annual Form 990 that other religious organizations have to file. When this is required, the churches will be under total control of the IRS with no wiggle room.

In the Baptist Temple court case, the church learned that a New Testament Church does not legally exist in the US today because there are no longer any First Amendment protections left. The genius of the First Amendment and various religious freedom clauses of the fifty states is that, for the first time in history, a N. T. Church could exist legally without having in the words of the IRS a “distinct legal existence.” Now even a N.T. Church will be assigned by force the legal status of an association and will be expected to meet the same standards that the not for profits have to meet. But, they still won’t have their God given right of a non-taxabl 1968 e status. This status is in contrast to an exempt status which is a privilege not a right.

IRS Agent Says That Churches are Trapped

The evidence as to what we are saying, though denied by most preachers, was made clear on January 24 this year in Tampa, Florida. IRS agent Melvin Blough testified in federal court that:

“once a church obtains the status of 501(c)(3) under the IRC they are trapped. The only way to be removed from a 501(c)(3) status is if the IRS chooses to remove the exemption. So if you dissolve the corporation and continue on as ABC church, an unincorporated church, you’re still trapped in their web and under their control.”

He further testified that a church is automatically exempt under federal law without a 501(c)(3) designation. He also stated under oath that churches request the status just to get the governments stamp of approval. Even though Blough used the word “exemption” rather than “exception,” he is essentially correct in his assessment of the plight of the churches of America. It is obvious that, regardless, the result is the same.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” (Third article of the Bill of Rights)

Not only in America but Everywhere THOSE ARE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS For which you MUST EARNESTLY CONTEND to Keep or SURRENDER. Those Rights to be FREE FROM a State Religion - To be FREE to Speak the TRUTH of your Faith and Conscience - To be FREE to Preach To be FREE to Publish - To be FREE to Peaceably Assemble - To be FREE to Speak Against Evil in Government - THOSE RIGHTS ARE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS THAT ARE SURRENDERED WHEN ANY CHURCH INCORPORATES (501c3)

INVITATION:

This brief summary is give to you in hopes that you will seek to know the TRUTH about the church and America. We will help you with information and encouragement. While the future looks grim, we know these things must come to pass. The Lord Jesus Christ told us so in Matthew 24-25 (The Olivet Discourse)

You may contact us:

Email: threshingfloor@verizon.net

[DontBeAfraid]

Post a source you dick.

[Traveler]

The laws are all there for anyone that wants to look closer.

When the churches were required to incorporate under (501c3) they became subject to its control as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501%28c%29

It only takes a couple of seconds to past the law number into the Google bar and get hundreds of results.

So there I brought one up for you

You wad

[Cartesiantheater]

I'm pretty sure than any employee of a tax exempt organization (from charities to churches) must pay income tax if there are a certain number of employees.

http://www.clergytaxes.com/church.htm#7

Are churches liable for withholding and payment to the government of payroll taxes?


Yes! While churches in general are exempt from federal income tax on their income, they are not exempt from the requirement to withhold (and submit to the government) payroll taxes for their employees, as well as to pay the employer's share of Social Security and Medicare taxes. The federal income tax is a pay-as-you-go tax system. You must pay your taxes you receive or earn income during the taxable year. There are two ways to pay as you go; (1) through normal payroll withholding by your employer, or (2) through estimated tax payments by the ordained, licensed, or commissioned minister, to the IRS.

also, this may help (haven't read it yet)

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf



If the IRS is trying to more clearly define the profession, it is PROBABLY because several greedy pastors are doing everything in their power to avoid paying payroll taxes just like every other entity that hires employees.

[DontBeAfraid]

I meant the source of your cut and paste job you dick!

[Raptor Witness]

Post a source you dick.

Best laugh of the week so far, DBA.

[Freddy]

This article was written in 2001. It is nothing new.

[Traveler]

I meant the source of your cut and paste job you dick!

I would say that it came from the guy who left his email address at the bottom of the article you wad.

[Cyranothe2nd]

Traveler,
It is usual, when cut-and-pasting something that someone else wrote, to include a link to the site where you found it, the author's name or some other identifier. This is done for many reasons: so that the poster isn't attributing something to the wrong person (or trying to pass off that he wrote something he didn't write), so that a reader can make sure it's quoted in context or in it's entirety, so that the original site gets the traffic it should from it's own work.
In other words--the email address doesn't cut it. It should at the least have the name of the website or the author's name somewhere in the quote. This is common internet courtesy.

[Traveler]

I take it because you want to know which site to target.

http://www.watchmanscry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7567

lets just see what the results are

[Cyranothe2nd]

*facepalm* You are still failing. The link you provided is to another cut and paste job, not to the original document.

Guys, it comes from Ronald Riffe's Cutting Edge Ministries, http://www.cuttingedge.org/

[antilib]

*facepalm* You are still failing. The link you provided is to another cut and paste job, not to the original document.

Guys, it comes from Ronald Riffe's Cutting Edge Ministries, http://www.cuttingedge.org/

I didn't see it by your link ...but I guess I'd have to dig through that site..

I found it here http://threshingfloor-radio.com/blog...g-lambs-501c3/ but it still might be a c&p from another site...

Trav...
ppl are always looking for an excuse to attack Christian sites...and when corrupt people in the church pull shit like this it doesn't help...

When they do good no one remembers...when they do bad no one forgets...

[acacia]

Gave Traveler neg rep for dishonesty in his link source.
You all will probably him him roar about it.
And, as usual, I expect retaliation as well.

[antilib]

Gave Traveler neg rep for dishonesty in his link source.
You all will probably him him roar about it.
And, as usual, I expect retaliation as well.

I think Trav was honest with the link source...

It looks like an e-mail that's going around...

quoting willybob 01-14-2010, 06:17 PM
I think it was discussed in this article from last May.

I didn't see it on Cyranothe2nd's link
then I did a search and found it posted on a few sites...

So how was Trav dishonest....I'm still new on this trashing posters because of their religious or political views...

[Traveler]

You asked where I got it from so I showed it to you.

Do you want me to make up some other answer more to your suiting.

[Cartesiantheater]

Traveler was being honest. But I believe that the rules of plagiarism don't really care if you got information from someone ELSE who stole it. Grammar Nazi's and intellectual property rights freaks are only satisfied if you properly site the ORIGINAL source, unless otherwise indicated (who the hell really understands these rules besides people who study English and grammar?).

It is MY OPINION that a lot of those rules are a tad ridiculous.



EDIT- I did find THIS however:


http://www.yale.edu/bass/writing/sou...net/email.html

[antilib]

Traveler was being honest. But I believe that the rules of plagiarism don't really care if you got information from someone ELSE who stole it. Grammar Nazi's and intellectual property rights freaks are only satisfied if you properly site the ORIGINAL source, unless otherwise indicated (who the hell really understands these rules besides people who study English and grammar?).

It is MY OPINION that a lot of those rules are a tad ridiculous.

I suspect it isn't their agenda to correct to English or grammar...nor the plagiarism angle...

What some are looking for is the link to some Christian or religious site so they can do a little 'Jesus on the cross' burning skit...

[Cartesiantheater]

I suspect it isn't their agenda to correct to English or grammar...nor the plagiarism angle...

These same posters have on many occasions bitched about people copying and pasting entire articles.

When I was a mod, I banned several after copyright infringement warnings

(before people go claiming that I am now a hypocrite, COPYRIGHT infringements can jeopardize the entire forum, so )



Lastly, I find it more believable that, if there is another reason than copyright infringement, it is one of trustworthiness.

You cite articles for several reasons, one of which is so that people can verify that your source is one that is respected scholarly, that it is trustworthy, and that it contains accurate information.

Scholarly sources are almost ALWAYS more trustworthy than other types of sources, and popular sources should always be questioned.

If you site an article that claims that less than a million Jews died in the Holocaust, and it HAPPENS to be from a Neo Nazi group, well, you have reason to doubt its authenticity. Do you agree or disagree?

This is one of the reasons we cite sources- so we can verify that the information being given to us is trustworthy.

[antilib]

These same posters have on many occasions bitched about people copying and pasting entire articles.

When I was a mod, I banned several after copyright infringement warnings

(before people go claiming that I am now a hypocrite, COPYRIGHT infringements can jeopardize the entire forum, so )

I never banned anyone...
I used a different moniker and it was funny when people would bitch to me about antilib's views...wanting him banned because they had different opinions...

I think the new laws being proposed are aimed at the copyright issues...

[Cyranothe2nd]

I suspect it isn't their agenda to correct to English or grammar...nor the plagiarism angle...

What some are looking for is the link to some Christian or religious site so they can do a little 'Jesus on the cross' burning skit...

Um, no. I have never gone to a site to flame them and haven't the time to wage a DOS attack on sites I don't like. I think that's dirty and I wouldn't be party to it.
The actual reason is that, as a writer I HATE it when by stuff is cut and pasted without proper attribution back to my site. Why? Well, for one because I wrote it, so I deserve the traffic to my site. Second, because some people try to steal other's work (not saying Trav was doing that--he did include the author's name in his tag line).
In retrospect I probably did go a little Internet Police on him. But I do think it's important to give as much credit as possible to the original author, which means at the least a link to their website.

[DontBeAfraid]

I used a different moniker and it was funny when people would bitch to me about antilib's views...wanting him banned because they had different opinions...

What are you talking about?

[DaKat]

This is a political issue, not religious

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Internal Revenue Service: PASTORS MUST BE ORDAINED BY THE IRS-(Excerpts) by Dr. Greg J. Dixon-Pastor, Indianapolis Baptist Tabernacle

THAT is complete and total nonsense, AND a clear violation of the First amendment.

Geeze, SOME people will believe anything. I KNOW of a site where that kind of garbage is not just tolerated, but welcomed.

[Traveler]

THAT is complete and total nonsense, AND a clear violation of the First amendment.

Geeze, SOME people will believe anything. I KNOW of a site where that kind of garbage is not just tolerated, but welcomed.

And you think that you still have an active first amendment right because?

[antilib]

Um, no. I have never gone to a site to flame them and haven't the time to wage a DOS attack on sites I don't like. I think that's dirty and I wouldn't be party to it.
The actual reason is that, as a writer I HATE it when by stuff is cut and pasted without proper attribution back to my site. Why? Well, for one because I wrote it, so I deserve the traffic to my site. Second, because some people try to steal other's work (not saying Trav was doing that--he did include the author's name in his tag line).
In retrospect I probably did go a little Internet Police on him. But I do think it's important to give as much credit as possible to the original author, which means at the least a link to their website.

I didn't mean a DOS attack against the quoted site...only bashing the site in the relevant thread...

I do C&P but I try to only snip and provide a link to where I got it from...Is that action correct or should I do more?

Send me a link to your site I'd like to see some of what you write...
I write short stories myself..none are posted or published..
My high school teacher (67) gave me a 'D' on a short story I wrote because she thought it was too morbid...I told her that that was the point...

Do you have any thoughts on the current copyright laws being considered..?

___________________________

Back to Trav's thread....

What happened to separation of Church and State...

Oh yeah..they separate preachin an taxin

_______________________
This message is hidden because DontBeAfraid is on your ignore list.

[DontBeAfraid]

I do C&P but I try to only snip and provide a link to where I got it from...Is that action correct or should I do more?

That is perfect actually.