'I have to keep her indoors now': Muslim husband's shocking response as wife is first to be fined £430 for wearing a burka

[GamerGal]

Under Italian anti-terrorist legislation, introduced during the 1970s to fight political activists, it is illegal to be seen in a public place with your face covered.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...ing-burqa.html

First, as quoted, it is a law from the 70's so they could fight terrorists. But my problem is this...

'If the law says she can't wear one then she will have to stay inside night and day. There is nothing I can do.'

That's right, because Italy says women are equal with men, he will keep her enslaved in his home for the rest of her life.

[lycanox]

This law is basically the equalivent of a burka ban. Which is often falsely promoted to increase the freedom of muslim woman.

And this is a prime example why it does not work that way.

[GamerGal]

Because the Muslim Male then keeps his slave in a cage in the basement, yeah, totally the fault of an anti terror law.

[James Random]

What's a burka?...oh you mean a Burqa.

[Rabid1]

What's a burka?...oh you mean a Burqa.

Having failed as the swearing police, james has expanded his job to spelling police. Unfortunately james is unaware that burkha, burka or burqua are all acceptable spellings.

BOT-

It is funny how the public including the Muslim there community appear to be OK with the law in general. Most of the people outraged seem to be from outside Italy, by the comments.

I can understabd a law that is specific about where, like the post office or a federal building. The law isn't just the burka but any clothing the hides the identity. But then you get the mayor saying [QUOTE}The people of Novara do not want to see people walking around in the city wearing a burka[/QUOTE] it becomes an entirely different beast.

[Abyssal_Worm]

I'm not fond of the idea of women being required to wear a burqa...but it is their cultural belief. No one has the right to infringe upon that belief. The more we try to force the issue the more likely we are going to have a serious culture clash that is going to result in terrible violence.

[custompainter]

My question is why? Why would you want to hide your wife's face? Middle eastern women are some of the most beautiful on the planet. Well besides the ones here at AO that is.
These arabic dudes are fuckin it up for the rest of us. So I say "NO MORE BURKAS!"

[Cyranothe2nd]

Having failed as the swearing police, james has expanded his job to spelling police. Unfortunately james is unaware that burkha, burka or burqua are all acceptable spellings.

Wrong James, dude. This is James Random, that was James Bowles.

And Lycanox is exactly right---THIS IS WHY THESE LAWS DON'T WORK. They don't increase the freedom of Muslim women. Telling women what they can and cannot wear doesn't make them liberated...it just makes you their new tyrant.

Also, there are exceptions to laws. In the US, it's considered impolite to wear a hat in court, except if you're wearing a yarmulke. It's a religious exception and, while I am generally against giving religion special treatment ever, it seems like a fair compromise to make in this case.

[Cartesiantheater]

Wrong James, dude. This is James Random, that was James Bowles.

And Lycanox is exactly right---THIS IS WHY THESE LAWS DON'T WORK. They don't increase the freedom of Muslim women. Telling women what they can and cannot wear doesn't make them liberated...it just makes you their new tyrant.
[...]

Right. The government shouldn't be telling people what they can and cannot wear. Total bullshit.

[GamerGal]

First, no Muslim Woman chooses what she wears. She is taught from birth she is less then human, the Quran even states she is only an animal(Equal with dogs and asses) So you can't say "It's a cultural thing!" When it is actually a cult thing.
Also, the law states ALL face coverings, so like if Michael Jackson showed up covering his face, he'd be fined.(I know he is dead but he went to some store with a mask on and didn't understand why he was told take it off)
But the fucked up part of it all? He states in public he will enslave her indoors for the rest of her life instead of giving her equal rights. I know Muslims say... Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'" But in Italy and most of the civil world they are gasp, considered human.


It would be no different then say, a law that says you can't torture children, and then the children of some Southern Baptists being taken away because they were beaten and flogged on a daily basis for sinning. Oh what, we actually do that in America? So, Southern Baptists can't torture children, no cry of religious discrimination, but in Italy you can't wear any mask in public hiding identity, and it is religious discrimination because Muslim Males truly believe that God/Allah says women are animals.

[lycanox]

Your point is?

If the law has a negative effect on helping Muslim woman to get more freedom while that is the purpose of the law. The existence of the law is not defensible. No matter how you turn it.

And this story from Italy, basically proves that those groups claiming that we should ban Burkas to help Muslim woman to be more free. Are essentially completely wrong and that a different approach must be found.

[DontBeAfraid]

and that a different approach must be found.

Like banning religion!

[GamerGal]

And this story from Italy, basically proves that those groups claiming that we should ban Burkas to help Muslim woman to be more free. Are essentially completely wrong and that a different approach must be found.

No, it proves even more that Muslim Males are monsters. When told he must treat his wife like she is *gasp* a human, he says no, she's an animal, my property, and I will lock her in a cage for the rest of her life.

[lycanox]

No, it proves even more that Muslim Males are monsters. When told he must treat his wife like she is *gasp* a human, he says no, she's an animal, my property, and I will lock her in a cage for the rest of her life.

That is no reason to create laws that makes matters worse.

[GamerGal]

That is no reason to create laws that makes matters worse.

How is it that a Muslim keeps a woman in a cage, and yet the law stating she is equal is the problem.

The law is not the problem, the fact that this man and millions of others all over the world believe God/Allah told them women are animals is the problem. A law states women are equal/human, so he will keep her in a cage indoors at all times, yet you blame the law. HOW?! That is like blaming the law every time some one commits a crime in America and saying "Well, if murder wasn't against the law then he wouldn't have committed a crime!"

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?! Or should we just legalize murder so we have no more crimes involving murder because it is no longer against the law? Oh wait, killing women isn't a crime in the majority of the ME, and in fact they have Moral Police in Saudi Arabia who do just that when ever they see a woman outside of the home with out a male escort. So I guess we should all just legalize the murder of women so we won't offend the Muslims that belive the Quran when it says women are animals.

Which leads me to another question, if the Quran states women are animals, then does that mean this Muslim male and others who believe that part of the Quran are actually committing beastiality? I know not all believe that part, just like not all Christians believe that part of the Earth being flat, but the ones who do believe that part of Quran stating women are animals like dogs and asses, are they committing beastiality?

[Abyssal_Worm]

No, it proves even more that Muslim Males are monsters. When told he must treat his wife like she is *gasp* a human, he says no, she's an animal, my property, and I will lock her in a cage for the rest of her life.

Actually it proves that in Muslim society males remain the dominant gender. Again, this is a cultural system that Americans simply do not understand, nor do we AS A WHOLE try to understand. They take their faith just as seriously as any Christian. Its just that whenever we hear about their faith, it is always filtered through news media outlets that have a Pro-Western mentality and Anti-minority posture.

Again, I do not like the idea of people having to conceal themselves when in public, but that's none of my business. These people have a human right to follow whatever religious/cultural philosophy they want. One could argue that the system is being forced upon the women because it is how they are brought up from birth, but it is NO DIFFERENT than in a Christian household in which the parents feed their children propaganda that depicts Christianity as the only true religion. Don't say it doesn't happen, I've seen enough of it first hand. [edit] In no way am I trying to say that Christianity is as bad as Islam or vice versa. In this paragraph I am merely pointing out that the indoctrination of one cultural belief is just as common as the indoctrination of a different culture.[/edit]

Quite simply: We need to just leave these people alone.

[Abyssal_Worm]

As for her being locked in a cage...lets have some proof that the cage is real and not just a metaphor. Otherwise, this is merely a play on words and is simply being interpreted differently by people who simply have differing views and wish to make the situation appear more "outlandish."

[GamerGal]

Actually it proves that in Muslim society males remain the dominant gender. Again, this is a cultural system that Americans simply do not understand, nor do we AS A WHOLE try to understand. They take their faith just as seriously as any Christian. Its just that whenever we hear about their faith, it is always filtered through news media outlets that have a Pro-Western mentality and Anti-minority posture.

Again, I do not like the idea of people having to conceal themselves when in public, but that's none of my business. These people have a human right to follow whatever religious/cultural philosophy they want. One could argue that the system is being forced upon the women because it is how they are brought up from birth, but it is NO DIFFERENT than in a Christian household in which the parents feed their children propaganda that depicts Christianity as the only true religion. Don't say it doesn't happen, I've seen enough of it first hand. [edit] In no way am I trying to say that Christianity is as bad as Islam or vice versa. In this paragraph I am merely pointing out that the indoctrination of one cultural belief is just as common as the indoctrination of a different culture.[/edit]

Quite simply: We need to just leave these people alone.

Except when children are flogged and tortured because they sinned in a southern Baptist home, the law takes them away because it is against the law.

Also, males are not just dominant, they are GODS. Women aren't even considered HUMAN! It is a cult and should not be allowed any more then Jim Jones and his kool aid. Until they either remove all the parts stating men are gods and women are animals or women are allowed freedom, it is nothing more then a cult much like the Catholic Church. Both are cults, hate women, and shouldn't be allowed. At least in other branches of Christianity women can be preachers and are considered human in all parts, unlike Islam where only the liberal branches consider women as human.

[lycanox]

How is it that a Muslim keeps a woman in a cage, and yet the law stating she is equal is the problem.

The law is not the problem, the fact that this man and millions of others all over the world believe God/Allah told them women are animals is the problem. A law states women are equal/human, so he will keep her in a cage indoors at all times, yet you blame the law. HOW?! That is like blaming the law every time some one commits a crime in America and saying "Well, if murder wasn't against the law then he wouldn't have committed a crime!"

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?! Or should we just legalize murder so we have no more crimes involving murder because it is no longer against the law? Oh wait, killing women isn't a crime in the majority of the ME, and in fact they have Moral Police in Saudi Arabia who do just that when ever they see a woman outside of the home with out a male escort. So I guess we should all just legalize the murder of women so we won't offend the Muslims.

That is just silly ranting again.

In the end those laws are not there to punish Muslim husbands from forcing burkas on their woman. But to help those woman to become more free.

Your whole argument in this thread is that burkas should be banned because Muslims are evil and use it to control their wives.
While complaining in the very first post about the very negative contra productive effects that prove that banning burkas does absolutely nothing to help Muslim woman gain more freedom.

In short you are just using this whole example as an excuse to whine about Islam and are supporting laws just because they happen to have negative effects for their religion. And you are absolutely not interested in actually helping those woman gain more freedom.

[Abyssal_Worm]

I agree that it is terrible that such actions take place towards the women and children. But this is something that has gone on for thousands of years. It is not going to change just because Americans and a few Europeans think that it is wrong. Getting them to change that belief is going to be seen as a direct threat to their belief system and will lead to brutal violence. If they are going to give up their brutal ways, it will have to be because THEY WANT TO. We cannot change their minds, nor should we. We have bigger and more important problems to deal with right now.

[GamerGal]

The only way they can be helped is if the police go in and rescue them and put them in schools, get them jobs, teach them they aren't animals like they have been told since birth

OR

Round up every Muslim Male on the planet, show them a woman working a job or showing an ankle. The ones who flip out and start foaming at the mouth while screaming about women are animals execute while the ones who don't have a problem with a woman working/showing an ankle are clearly MEN and not monsters and should not just be allowed back out but praised for being MEN and not monsters.

Also, thanks for telling me and every woman on here you don't believe we are human. How dare Italy have a law stating women are human! Why, this just proves that laws stating women are human are wrong!

[GamerGal]

I agree that it is terrible that such actions take place towards the women and children. But this is something that has gone on for thousands of years. It is not going to change just because Americans and a few Europeans think that it is wrong. Getting them to change that belief is going to be seen as a direct threat to their belief system and will lead to brutal violence. If they are going to give up their brutal ways, it will have to be because THEY WANT TO. We cannot change their minds, nor should we. We have bigger and more important problems to deal with right now.

So, we should have just let the NAZIS take over the world and wipe out the Jews because they believed in that idea?(I know, Godwins Law)

So we should have just let the Church exterminate all the Indians because that is what they believed?

So we should have just let Mao and Stalin free reign because that is what they believed?

Also, you may think there are bigger problems out there then millions of males beating and raping and keeping women as slaves, but as a woman I see few things bigger.(Cancer/Disease being one of those few things)

[lycanox]

The only way they can be helped is if the police go in and rescue them and put them in schools, get them jobs, teach them they aren't animals like they have been told since birth

Wouldn't it be a lot easier simply not to ban the burka so those woman can be a part of the community.

Also, thanks for telling me and every woman on here you don't believe we are human. How dare Italy have a law stating women are human! Why, this just proves that laws stating women are human are wrong!

You are the one promoting laws. Knowing it will only result in woman being locked up.
Just because you happen in some pissing contest versus Islam.

Not me.

So lets not accuse me of not making a judgment based on whats best for those woman.

[GamerGal]

What's best is equal rights and freedom for ALL. Not just men, not just Muslim or Christian, gay or straight, ALL. But you claim since Muslims don't believe in equal rights or freedom we should respect that? Fuck no. We are all created equal and it is bullshit you can stand there and say women should just take it because that is what Muslim males believe.

Also, what about the Muslim MEN who allow women *gasp* equal rights? Should they then be punished for not keeping women in cages? Or should we praise them as the MEN that they are for not acting like monsters?

[lycanox]

Nobody is talking about not giving Muslim woman the freedom and rights they deserve.

The thing is. You are promoting a method that has already proved itself not to work.
And having even more negative effects for Muslim woman.
And refuse to accept that it does not work. And that we thus should stop such laws and look for other solutions that actually do work.

Just because you happen to be in some kind of pissing contest with their religion.