The Have Nots - and the origin of the Commandments

[equestrian]

Recall that it was Jean Francois Champollion c1821-22, who deciphered the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics from the Rosetta Stone. Jean Champollion had a brother Champollion-Figeac who wrote a volume titled, Egypte, published in 1839, therein Figeac identified the ancient Egyptian religion as monotheistic ::

"The Egyptian religion is a pure monotheism, which manifests itself externally as a symbolic polytheism." (ref., Egypte, p. 245, col.1)

The religion flourished for thousands of years and influenced ecclesiastical thinking throughout the UK, and most European and Mediterranean countries well into the 1600's A.D. Its influence is still in evidence throughout the UK and on the continent

It manifested itself in many ways and can be credited for many passages now found in the Old and New Testaments. Of particular note are the Have Not Commandments (also known as the Declaration of Innocence).

By example:

1.) (Egyptian) O Dangerous One -I have not killed men.
--- (Old Testament) - Thou shalt not kill.

2.) (Egyptian) O Fire-embracer - I have not robbed
--- (Old Testament) - Thou shalt not steal.

3.) (Egyptian) O Commander of mankind who came forth from your house, I have not reviled God.
--- (Old Testament) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain

4.) (Egyptian) Hail Eater of entrails who came forth from the House of Thirty, I have not committed perjury.
--- (Old Testament) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

The form of the statement differs slightly as one would expect between an ancient civilization and the modern world. But the intent of both is clear!

james
/

[proffett]

The Egyptian theology was yet another religion based on former theologies, such as that from Sumeria and Babylonia. Earlier versions of the so called 10 Commandments can be found on tablets written in Cuneiform known as the Instruction of Shurupak. Shurupak, the ante-deluvian ruler was the fabled father of Ziusudra (of which the legend of Noah are directly based off).

The Shuruppak instructions can be said to be the Sumerian forerunner of the 10 Commandments and some of the Proverbs of the Bible: Line 50: Do not curse with powerful means (3rd Commandment); lines 28: Do not kill (6th Commandment); line 33-34: Do not laugh with or sit alone in a chamber with a girl that is married (7th Commandment); lines 28-31: Do not steal or commit robbery (8th Commandment); and line 36: Do not spit out lies (9th Commandment).

This is the earliest known record of such things :)

[equestrian]

proffett suggested

the ante-deluvian ruler was the fabled father of Ziusudra (of which the legend of Noah are directly based off).

james) There's an interesting account of the Flood by George Smith, in a volume titled, The Chaldean Account of the Deluge. The story comes from Assyrian tablets found in the ruins of the library of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh, and date some c600 years before the Christian era.

They were presented by Smith in the Transactions of the Society of Biblical Archaeology.

The 11th tablet reads this way

51. it . . . . . . . .
52. which in . . . . . . . .
53. strong . . . . . . I brought
54. . . . . . it
55. in its circuit 14 measures . . . . its sides
56. 14 measures it measured . . . . over it
57. I Placed its roof on it . . . . . I enclosed it
58. I rode in it, for the sixth time I . . . . . . for the seventh time
59. into the restless deep . . . . . for the . . . . time
60. its planks the waters within it admitted,
61. I saw breaks and holes . . . . . . my hand placed
62. three measures of bitumen I poured over the outside,
63. three measures of bitumen I poured over the inside
64. three measures the men carrying its baskets took they . . . . . fixed an altar
65. I unclosed the altar . . . . . the altar for an offering
66. two measures the altar . . . . Pazziru the pilot

It'd be interesting to piece together all the text that went eventually into the Old and New Testaments

What a task that would be

james
/

[proffett]

Indeed the Ashur-Bani-Pal library contained a wealth of information. The tablet above was only one of numerous accounts of the Deluge that have been found and translated. The most famous of course being that of the account of Gilgamesh and Uto-Napishtim.

Granted there are deeper connotations than merely that of historical significance when speaking of the Great Flood. The worship of the Annunaki gods and their creation of the deluge and their subsequent laments and even anger, expressed mostly by En-lil, in the post deluvial world.. Aside from that..

Point being, I brought up earlier accounts to illustrate that the Egyptians simply mimicked the antiquated religions of the Sumerians. God's names were changed, pharaohs descended from god and human commingling (until Akhenaten, who is said to be a direct descendant) and thus the Egyptian theology was born. But it is based upon earlier religious beliefs.


Thus the first account of the 10 commandments comes directly from Sumeria and not the Egyptians or even from a Christian god.. It's all been done before, just rewritten to suit the times and power base.

[equestrian]

re., the birth of Egyptian theology

proffett: I think one of the most intriguing passages from the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts, from the pyramids of Saggara, is Utterance 600, § 1655 because it names a Father Atum in the following passage as a unique entity

O you Great Ennead which is on On, (namely) Atum, Shu, Tefenet, Geb, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Seth, and Nephthys; O you children of Atum

Recall that there is an Ennead of nine (Atum, Shu, Tefenet, Geb, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Seth, and Nephthys) and here we have the Great Ennead of ten that includes a Father Atum

I've always thought of this passage as marking the beginning of a Father and Son theology

james
/

[proffett]

I've always thought of this passage as marking the beginning of a Father and Son theology

james
/

However, Atum is based on the Sumerian Anu, the father of the gods of Sumer. Remember too, Anu has two very prominent sons, Ea (En.ki) and El (En.lil). He is referred to in several tablets as The Father.

It was Marduck (Ea's son) who promises to return, thus the birth of the Messianic Belief set.

Also, each Egyptian god, or aspects of The One, however you choose to look at it, can be directly attributed to an Annunaki god.

[equestrian]

proffett - IMO chronology and origins are the tough part. The Pyramid Texts (written on the stone in the lower reaches of the pyramids of Saqqara) for instance, were not written on the blocks in situ. They were on the blocks and then moved from somewhere else and used to build the subject pyramids. They are out of sequence and span a very long period of time.

The text on the Cuneiform tablets found in ashes of the Library of Ashurbanipal were not original - as they were copied from the Sumerian. The origins of Gilgamish from the Library of Ashurbanipal, and written on Cuneiform tablets, for instance, are another puzzle. They are of later origin than the Pyramid Texts and probably much later than the theologies of the Sumerians and Babylonians, least as I see it.

Being able to identify the very first is an intriguing thought

I sway toward the pre-Dynastic Egyptian as the origin rather than the religions of the Sumerians - that I suppose, because of my familiarity with the Egyptian era

But your argument is swaying!

james
/

[Ningishiddza]

proffett suggested

james) There's an interesting account of the Flood by George Smith, in a volume titled, The Chaldean Account of the Deluge. The story comes from Assyrian tablets found in the ruins of the library of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh, and date some c600 years before the Christian era.

They were presented by Smith in the Transactions of the Society of Biblical Archaeology.

The 11th tablet reads this way

51. it . . . . . . . .
52. which in . . . . . . . .
53. strong . . . . . . I brought
54. . . . . . it
55. in its circuit 14 measures . . . . its sides
56. 14 measures it measured . . . . over it
57. I Placed its roof on it . . . . . I enclosed it
58. I rode in it, for the sixth time I . . . . . . for the seventh time
59. into the restless deep . . . . . for the . . . . time
60. its planks the waters within it admitted,
61. I saw breaks and holes . . . . . . my hand placed
62. three measures of bitumen I poured over the outside,
63. three measures of bitumen I poured over the inside
64. three measures the men carrying its baskets took they . . . . . fixed an altar
65. I unclosed the altar . . . . . the altar for an offering
66. two measures the altar . . . . Pazziru the pilot

It'd be interesting to piece together all the text that went eventually into the Old and New Testaments

What a task that would be

james
/

You're a day late and a dollar short. Someone already pieced together the texts that make up the Deluge account in Genesis. It comes from the Akkadian account, but then Abrahm was Akkadian.