Rioting Nearby: What can you do, legally and otherwise?

**GP100** · Oct 4th, 2011 6:07 PM

I've asked similar questions before but was thinking today about legal ramifications for things.

So, if there's a riot that is literally outside your house / apartment / condo. Let's be nice and say it's only 20-30-40 people outside.

Legally, can you at this point grab a rifle or shotgun, visibly work its action (though not point it at them, just point it in the air) and tell the mob that they best move along? Would this be considered brandishing? Could you get in legal trouble?

***Blu-ray*** · Oct 4th, 2011 6:41 PM

I believe so. Unless you are in fear for your life and in imminent danger that is. Let them come in your home and then shoot them all. Problem solved. You were protecting you, your loved ones, and your property.

**SmokinJoe** · Oct 4th, 2011 8:15 PM

^^^ This. I would imagine shooting a gun in the air would cause a lot more trouble. Unless your life was in danger leave the guns alone. That's a good way of getting yourself shot by the police or rioters.

***pico*** · Oct 4th, 2011 8:15 PM

It really depends on your locality... and State you reside in. If this were to take place in NYC, you would be a total dumbass if you pull out any weapon and threaten the crowd with force. On the other hand, if you feel threatened, I would do my best to contact the authorities and explain what is happening, and also tell them you have a firearm for self defense and would like police assistance immediatly.

If these people are threatening you, in most states you have the right to defend yourself, and threats of gross bodily harm in some states are nearly identical to the actual use of force. Also, if these people are armed with weapons, or sticks, stones, and such, which are deemed weapons in riot situations, you can likely have a much stronger case for self defense if deadly force is used.

I remember reading a few years ago a book of the legal issues surrounding the use of deadly force. One recommendation I am not 100% on board with is to have the first round be a less than lethal round, which can be followed by the more likely to be lethal rounds.

One thing you must consider is what will be step 2 and beyond once step one is initiated in an event as described. I would think the act of simply brandishing a firearm would paint you as a big target if the rioters are very nnumerous. You better have a firearm like an AK 47 and be ready to bump fire off an entire drum magazine to make the crowd have the fear of Gof in them. Pulling out a .22 Magnum snub nose revolver, or even a Dirty Harry S&W 29 in .44 Magnum will just make 5 or 6 people have a really bad day.

***Tired Old Man*** · Oct 7th, 2011 5:07 PM

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

^^^ This. I would imagine shooting a gun in the air would cause a lot more trouble. Unless your life was in danger leave the guns alone. That's a good way of getting yourself shot by the police or rioters.

I don't think he said shoot it in the air. But even pointing it in the air could land you in jail. Never show a gun as a deterrent.

***pico*** · Oct 7th, 2011 7:22 PM

TOM... it really depends on what situation you are facing. Perhaps if bad guys are trying to pick your lock, simply having a pump action shotgun cycling would be a deterrant, but how much difference is that?

**blackbird357** · Oct 11th, 2011 1:09 PM

Better to be judged by twelve then carried by six

***Tired Old Man*** · Oct 11th, 2011 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by blackbird357

Better to be judged by twelve then carried by six

Not always. Like Pico said it depends on the situation your in. Lets say a mob is tearing up my car which is on my property. I / you would be crazy to shoot them. Now I'm in Florida and might be able to get away with it. But the trail by twelve might lead to me being carried by six. Bravado is the wrong way to go here.

**judah** · May 10th, 2012 12:11 AM

I'd say in most rational states that don't view gun owners on par with criminals, it would be pretty difficult to get a brandishing charge in or right near your home. I think it probably wouldn't be smart to step out side with a weapon to try to deter a large crowd though, you could stir them up. As long as they aren't setting fire to, or attempting to break into your home or a connected building I would just be locked, loaded and ready without drawing attention to yourself. I asked my buddy who is a police officer in Virginia and he said that type of scenario would wind up being your word against the "rioters" word as to how you were pointing the gun and who was threatening who. He says that the rioters would get destroyed in court and the number of people rioting would give weight to your defense that your life was in immediate danger.

***Ningishiddza*** · Jun 10th, 2012 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by GP100

I've asked similar questions before but was thinking today about legal ramifications for things.

So, if there's a riot that is literally outside your house / apartment / condo. Let's be nice and say it's only 20-30-40 people outside.

Legally, can you at this point grab a rifle or shotgun, visibly work its action (though not point it at them, just point it in the air) and tell the mob that they best move along? Would this be considered brandishing? Could you get in legal trouble?

No, you would charged with "inciting." Depending on the State you live in, that could be a misdemeanor or felony.

There are ways to hold weapons in non-threatening positions. The US Supreme Court has so stated on numerous occasions. For example, any club-type weapon, a baton, Tonfa, baseball bat, steel pipe, piece of 2x4 etc can be cradled under your arm, and that is a non-threatening posture. Remember the standard is the "Reasonable Person" standard. If I have my right hand on the handle of an aluminum softball bat and the bat is cradled under my left arm with the end pointing away from whomever I'm facing, that is non-threatening position.

Generally, any weapon carried or wielded in a manner consistent with the "manual of arms" is non-threatening. You can have your hand on the trigger of a rifle or shotgun, so long as the barrel is cradled under the opposite arm pointing away from those facing you. Any weapon that is slung, or holstered, or at "shoulder arms" is also non-threatening.

If there is a throng of people gathered outside your residence, your best bet is to do absolutely nothing at all -- don't even show your face. Even if it's just 20 people, and you have a 30-round clip, you lose, because you ain't gonna kill or wound all 20.

Since in all likelihood, you have no idea whatsoever why those specific people are gathered in front of your residence, and since you are under immediate threat, working the action on weapon so that they could see it would be bringing sorrow upon yourself, and that's how courts and a jury would see it.

Originally Posted by Tired Old Man

Never show a gun as a deterrent.

That's right. If you draw down or lock and load, then you fire, and if you are not prepared to fire, then you don't draw down or lock and load.

Originally Posted by blackbird357

Better to be judged by twelve then carried by six

Yeah, sure, so long as you have $500,000 in cash lying about.

That might have been true 20 yeas ago, but no longer. You got Gen X and Gen Y sitting on juries.