Europe's blind spot

[lycanox]

Lyca you never even commented on my take of the situation, you just zeroed in on the antisemitic word....something that causes you to go blind.....just like the link suggests. The article could have been written my God himself, and you would shrug it off as an anti Muslim attack. I doubt there is any journalistic source that would hold credibility in your eyes when this subject is brought up......

So by your take on this, the article is fear-mongering and untrue, so both CNN and the BBC are junk news. Lets make sure in future we never quote anything from those sources.

First of all, it is a blog.

Blogs never have the same credibility of the rest of the site. Becouse they are just opinion pieces, not journalism. I could post one on CNN or BBC about alliens invading and it will never have any credibility as the rest of the site. Which is why CNN has that disclaimer below such articles stating that they have nothing to do with it.

And again. If the blog is credible. Then why does it very conveniently suggests that anyone that is critical of Israel is condoning anti-Semitism. Why does it make several assumptions that are based on nothing? Like the claims about dutch soccer slogans and van Bommel or the accusation towards the UN and Reuters.

You may laugh at me for not taking a blog on CNN serious. But that blog openly suggested that Reuters is deliberately spreading anti-Semitic propaganda. Just becouse they accidentally posted and retracted a wrong story.

[Sensei]

I do know..... But its worded ( soccer) for our friends in the states, as they already have "football" ..... same name , wrong game...

As for your other post, I don't think the UK represents the whole of Europe...and there was this article....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12350913

Good man

Thanks for the link, surprised and shocked. I guess there is a minority of pricks wherever you live.
I guess these people have no real idea about what goes on over there, in the country created by the U.S

[TC]

Good man

Thanks for the link, surprised and shocked. I guess there is a minority of pricks wherever you live.
I guess these people have no real idea about what goes on over there, in the country created by the U.S

As I said in the first post, the second generation of immigrants in Europe with Islamic decent neither fit in the host country nor in their home country, assimilation is near impossible.
This offers an outlet for the frustrations of a goalless youth for adhering to radical Islam, primarily with the propagating of an already existing antisemitism, and this is outside any attitudes of the state of Israel, as the bitterness towards their host country is far greater....no jobs, non acceptance by locals, low income, and segregation. And there are those who exploit this bitterness and use it towards their agenda.

[Stabby Joe]

I do know..... But its worded ( soccer) for our friends in the states, as they already have "football" ..... same name , wrong game...

As for your other post, I don't think the UK represents the whole of Europe...and there was this article....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12350913

You're right, it doesn't. Europe is made up of a vast collection of diverse nations... so I'm confused why you just listed yourself as from "Europe".

[DontBeAfraid]

This isn't news!

Correct. That is why this is in the philosophy section.

[TC]

Swedish news reported today that the film made by the French shooter will not be released by Al Jazeera news agency due to code of ethics. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe...265948416.html

The film which was edited by the shooter using quotes from the Koran as he gunned down the his victims has been sent to several media networks, titled "Al Qaeda attaque la France" but has yet to surface on any TV programs. For those who don't think that Europe's youth are influenced by radical religion should think again, or to imply that this event is created to inflame anti Islamic attitudes with fear mongering.

[GamerGal]

http://news.yahoo.com/boy-beaten-nea...212016878.html
Boy beaten near Paris Jewish school amid tensions

PARIS (AP) — A 12-year-old boy was beaten outside his Jewish school in Paris by youths reciting anti-Semitic slogans, school officials said, amid high security and tensions in France following killings of Jewish children and a rabbi last week.

The boy did not suffer serious injuries.

Both the school shooting and this week's beating involved the Ozar Hatorah network of Jewish schools.

Emotions have been raw in France, especially within the half-million-strong Jewish community, since a gunman shot a rabbi and his two sons, 3 and 5 years old, and the 8-year-old daughter of the principal of the Ozar Hatorah School in the southern city of Toulouse on March 19.

And yet Lyx refuses to see any problem with this...

Also, read the comment section, racism is alive and well.

[lycanox]

There have been 2 murders in Holland alone after this incident. But apparently those aren't worth mentioning for you becouse the victims werent Jews. Let alone that you would have cared if the victims were Muslims.

Afterall you yourself promoted an anti Islamic genocide becouse you don't believe they are human not that long ago.
So if there is one member that has no businesses posting against racism. It is you.

[TC]

Yet at the same time you deny any of this exists, going to great lengths to dispel any credible sources as non valid. The article is titled "Europe's blind spot" and in your fanatic efforts to deny this issue, you confirm the very presence of it. It wouldn't really matter if it was tomatoes being discussed, you would find some weird logic to argue apples.
For the most part people have given up debating any issue with you, simply because you would rather die than give in to any possibility of truth.


I happened to glance at this piece on Dutch attitudes, it pretty well hits the nail on the head.....http://www.commentarymagazine.com/20...anti-semitism/

And I'm sure you'll find fault in the publication...simply because its Jewish.

[lycanox]

First of all, i never denied antisemitism exist.

And second that article is biased and falsely accuses groups of antisemitism.
So either provide concrete evidence of those claims. Or retract it.
Until that point i have no other option to believe that you are too just using antisemitism as a stupid propaganda trick to demonize critizising Israel.

The second article is of a similar nature, a satirical game about Palestine is being used to suggest that the whole of Holland is antisemetic.
Even do the game does not promote terrorism or anti Jewish sentiments.

And if there really such a big problem with antisemitism in Holland. Than why is one of the biggest political parties the fashist, discriminating, Islam phobic and Israel backing PVV.

But offcource you will never hear that.

[GamerGal]

Dude, we get it. The Muslims who hijecked the planes on 9/11 were actually Jewish spies pretending to be Muslim so America would invade the Middle East. Holocaust didn't happen that was the Jews being Jews. Muslims didn't exterminate tens of millions across Asia in their heyday, nearly wiping out Buddism in India they killed so many, that is just the Jews lying about history. All those women who got acid thrown in their faces by their Muslim owners, er, husbands were actually attacked by Jews who had plastic surgery done to make them look like the husbands. The Mulima caught running a child sex slave ring were just set up by the Jews.

Every thing ever told about Muslims is a Jewish lie no matter what video, testimony, or eye witness testimony there is, all the Jews making them look bad.

[lycanox]

And let me guess Muslims hijacked your account when you posted they arent people and should be genocided.

[TC]

First of all, i never denied antisemitism exist.

And second that article is biased and falsely accuses groups of antisemitism.

Who said you did?

And of course any article regarding antisemitism is false, it doesn't exist in Europe at all, this entire thread is a Jewish conspiracy to demonize Islam. Jeeeus...its like debating with a stump.

[lycanox]

Who said you did?

And of course any article regarding antisemitism is false,it doesn't exist in Europe at all, this entire thread is a Jewish conspiracy to demonize Islam. Jeeeus...its like debating with a stump.

Sure, an normal news report of jewish graves being vandalized with swastikas. Synagoges being burned or jews being beaten up.
Of that I can believe that is honest reporting of antisemitism.

Afteral, I never stated antisemitism does not take place at all.
And I have no reason to believe those incidents are fake.

But when an article lists events that have already been properly explained and apologized for as accidents and blows them out of proportion.
Credibility takes a nosedive and one has to wonder whether or not there is an agenda behind it.

[Cartesiantheater]

Sure, an normal news report of jewish graves being vandalized with swastikas. Synagoges being burned or jews being beaten up.
Of that I can believe that is honest reporting of antisemitism.

Afteral, I never stated antisemitism does not take place at all.
And I have no reason to believe those incidents are fake.

But when an article lists events that have already been properly explained and apologized for as accidents and blows them out of proportion.
Credibility takes a nosedive and one has to wonder whether or not there is an agenda behind it.

If there is an agenda at all, it is merely to stir up shit, or sensationalize, for that is how news outlets make money. But no, there is no Jewish conspiracy.

[Beatnik Bob]

I am very critical of Israel. Many Israelis are very critical of Israel. Israeli human rights groups like B'Tselem are often critical of Israel (in terms of political policy).

I'm not sure criticism constitutes antisemitism.

However, I agree shooting people is not how you resolve a problem.
I do not like how the Knesset acts on many of these matters, but I do realize that Palestinians, Arabs, and others would receive much more sympathy from the international community if they behaved differently in response.
They aren't very good at selling their situation to the international community... Partly because they are often equal belligerents. Attacks (whether they are or are not retaliatory) are not good ways of painting yourself as oppressed...

My gripe with Israel is that they should not forget the rights of man, under any circumstance--even if your opponent does consistently disregard human rights. However, I acknowledge that the dynamics are complex. Many of the ghettos created for Palestinians exist to keep the Palestinians from killing Israelis. But ultimately, building walls and ghettos is not how you resolve a conflict, it's how you exacerbate it.
The approach that Israel has been taking is that the conflict will never be resolved, so why try to resolve it... Rather just try to contain it or minimize casualties from your side. That policy is bound to create resentment.

Although, if people talked more and fired bullets less, we might get somewhere. Unfortunately, this is not easy when you have "certain leaders" aching for a religious war; who make overtures of violence to their followers.


It's much more than "jew" vs. "muslim" though. It gets down to nationality, ethnicity, whose family has been where longer, et cetera.

People who think that what happens in Israel is strictly religious are mistaken.
You have at least one group of jews who never left Israel... something like Samaritans. They were there under British, Ottoman, etc. rule all the way back to the kingdoms of judah and israel.
It is my understanding that they are considered Palestinians in a way, despite the fact they are Israelis. The Palestinians acknowledge them as "belonging."

Then you have the more extreme situation of "jewish" Russians. When the U.S.S.R. fell, Russian jews came pouring in. They eat pig and they drink alcohol and they receive a certain amount of dislike and distrust from jews and muslims alike.

The situation is just much more complex than mere religion. There's the question of whether you are Sephardic or not, and if so what part of North Africa (if not Spain or Italy) you are from... Et cetera.
In the U.S. status/class is determined by income. In Europe status/class has more to do with some heredity. In much of the Middle East it concerns family, origin, how long your family has actually been in a certain spot, et cetera.


As far as Muslims in Europe go... Their main source of understanding the situation is media, so they may believe that it is more religious in nature than it really is. It is religious, but it is also social, political, and ethnic--which is the part that is too complex to sell to the American public. Americans (and Europeans) may understand the premise of religious war better, so the religious aspect sells. The fact that the Middle East hasn't been able to deal well with diversity (whether ethnic or religious) since the Ottomans is something that's harder to intimate to an American and/or European audience.

An example of this is the Dome of the Rock... In Ottoman times, all religious sites were shared whether you liked it or not. If Muslims, Jews, and Christians all thought a site was holy... Then they had better learn to share it.
Today, this isn't the case. The Dome of the Rock/temple mount is monopolized by Muslims while other areas are monopolized by jews. There is not integration, and this leads to even more resentment.

[TC]

Granted papers use anything to sell their subscriptions, thats the essence of the business. I have spent some time this week looking into the issue from various sources, ( in this case, reported cases listed in the Baltic states) making an honest attempt to find non partisan reporting in regards to antisemitism in Europe, probably more so to pacify the nay sayers who dismantle the articles written as invalid or lacking in credibility.

The dilemma of sorts is finding "acceptable" sources.... most in depth statistics are drawn from the ADL and the Wiesenthal institute, which would naturally draw criticism as being a biased opinion, or in the case of the OP articles as being a "blog" and of course anything official from the U.S would be deemed slanted or influenced by a Jewish lobby. This leaves very little to pacify the antagonists.

But using the adage "where there's smoke...and hopefully rising above media hype, there is a collective picture that antisemitism has risen over the past two decades. The first incentive would be an attitude generated by the actions of Israel, the second being latent national prejudice. And there is a correlation between the youth of immigrants from Arab states and the exploitation of this group.

Probably the larger part of the problem lays in the distinction between attitudes generated by Israeli actions and a direct antisemitic point of view based solely on race. While the first being the greater factor in an overall picture of European attitudes, and the later being old deep seated prejudice. Both feed on each other and become intertwined.

While the majority won't go so far as to say it doesn't exist, but at the same time downplay the issue as being the result of an over exaggerated media, or worse in claiming an agenda propagated by a pro Israeli influence.

Acknowledgment that national actions and policies can produce attitudes and sentiments is evident in the 180 degree negative turn over the last two decades towards Americans viewed by Europeans, with no real distinctions made between individuals and governmental actions.

[Storm]

In the aftermath of the shooting spree last week in France, the debate has raised the old issue of Europe's anti-Semitism, something that refuses to die in its ancient hatred for the Jew.

(Frida Ghitis is a world affairs columnist for The Miami Herald and World Politics Review.)

Full story. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/22/op...tml?hpt=ieu_t3

The only problem I have with what the writer has written is her confusion between centuries old religious anti-Semitism, mainly from the traditional catholic faschosphere with political anti-Semitism, mainly from French Islamic extremists.

Put briefly; the French extreme right under the guidance of Marine Le Pen has transferred traditional religious hatred of Jews to hatred of Muslims (which is a great election ticket) whereas French Islamic extremism has picked up the mantel of political anti-Semitism. This is evident by the increase in attacks on French Jews by Islamic extremists during tense moments in the mid-east.

However, no matter what labels or excuses one gives, vicious anti-Semitism does exist here, still.

[TC]

As I've spent the last 20 years vacationing each summer in France, I've seen the change in attitudes, not only with the political aspects, but with the locals as well. After the old French territories broke up in North Africa, there was a huge influx of people gaining French citizenship, and for the most part made a valid effort at assimilating into French culture. But as time passed, this group became more and more isolated from mainstream society, as their faith created restrictions.

The consequence was a second generation that rejected a formal Islam, and at the same time didn't fit into French society either, which over years had become less tolerant towards ethnic minority groups and immigration as a whole. This in turn created small enclaves ( ghettos if you will) of isolated youth, who's only form of identity became gang oriented. This became a breeding ground for the more radical interpretations of Islam, who capitalized on this disenfranchised group.

This scenario is not unlike the radical groups that sprang up in America during the 60s, feed by the isolated groups that had no identity with a white America. Europe has an ancient history laced with suspicions and religious persecutions, and we have seen the fruit of both.