If I wanted America to fail...

[Anarch]

A short youtube vid for your consideration

+ YouTube Video

[DontBeAfraid]

lol... Retarded libertarians and their LIES... You know whats funny half of the "fails" in the video were entirely "free market" fails...

[Anarch]

The failing half must of been you and people like you. Lord knows humanity could do better.

Lies... you accuse them of lies... I liar calls another a liar... Should we believe you or that other with no record of lying?

HMMMMMM Not a difficult question considering......

You have gotten stale DBA. brittle. pithy.

[DontBeAfraid]

And you have gotten dumber... Especially if you think libertarians want less government... They want MORE government, but not by elected officials but by a class of royalty, so elevated not because of talent or hard work but by bloodright and the cleverness of their ancestors in the way of funneling money from the working class. They want you as a slave Anarch, with no representation to stand up on your behalf and fight for your human rights.

And to what lies are you implying I have told?

Seriously, when/where have I lied? Find some examples or retract your statement.

[Anarch]

And you have gotten dumber... Especially if you think libertarians want less government... They want MORE government, but not by elected officials but by a class of royalty, so elevated not because of talent or hard work but by bloodright and the cleverness of their ancestors in the way of funneling money from the working class.

At first I wondered if you really understood what a libertarian is... then after further reading I can only conclude that you know EXACTLY what the libertarian platform is and that this tangent of yours is all about trolling.

They want you as a slave Anarch, with no representation to stand up on your behalf and fight for your human rights.

I don't have fair representation now. On a local level our city leaders/business leaders have discovered that they can put them and their buddies into council and take turns rotating into and out of office. And this is what they are doing... Whats more an independent popped up last year...they are going all out exposing the corruption explaining who got no bid contracts and why the city used eminent domain to tear down turn of the century homes to build public parks (rather than the four lane road we were promised) and so on and so forth...The city council had the police follow and harass the delivery drivers to a point that home delivery service has been suspended... WHY? Because the NB citizen wont stop reporting on the deals and deeds of our city council... both as public servants and as private business men.....


On a state and federal level I have written my congressmen, .... I got ignored or I got auto-generated responses that had nothing to do with my original letter.

Fair representation? Thats a lark.

And to what lies are you implying I have told?

Seriously, when/where have I lied? Find some examples or retract your statement.

You retract your statement first. Seriously. Maybe you did not notice who the first person was that replied .... Seriously it was you... and you were the one calling others liars... So show proof or retract your own statement Seriously.

[DontBeAfraid]

So you cant back up your claim... typical.

The big lie in the video is that the free market was the only force in history that ever increased social mobility.
The truth is that an unregulated free market only increases the gap between the elite and the rest of us.

[Anarch]

No it doesn't....


The corporations...the unethical ones... not all are but that is a minority ..most are clinically psychological....crazy.... willing to kill for profit if they can get away with it. UNETHICAL. And that is a problem in that segment of humanity at this point in our history.


A REAL FREE MARKET with out the access to manipulate government to favor them....is alot different. We can see this certain other nations. And at other points in history.....

A real free market is equivalent with real free citizens....

The ...wealthier.....more powerful... the elite.... the infiltrate government .. because they know that will further the profits...and the majority are more than willing... ethical companies are far and few inbetween.

So the wealthy utilise government offices to further their corporate power, to create monopolies, and stifle threats to their profits.

That is not a free market... that is fucking communism.

[DontBeAfraid]

A REAL FREE MARKET with out the access to manipulate government to favor them....is alot different. We can see this certain other nations. And at other points in history.....

Ya, like in Somalia... A libertarians wet dream.

A real free market is equivalent with real free citizens....

Im sure the pirates are loving the freedom they have to slaughter the population of somalia...

That is not a free market... that is fucking communism.

Im pretty sure you dont know the meaning of free market or the meaning of communism...

[Cartesiantheater]

No it doesn't....


The corporations...the unethical ones... not all are but that is a minority ..most are clinically psychological....crazy.... willing to kill for profit if they can get away with it. UNETHICAL. And that is a problem in that segment of humanity at this point in our history.


A REAL FREE MARKET with out the access to manipulate government to favor them....is alot different. We can see this certain other nations. And at other points in history.....

A real free market is equivalent with real free citizens....

The ...wealthier.....more powerful... the elite.... the infiltrate government .. because they know that will further the profits...and the majority are more than willing... ethical companies are far and few inbetween.

So the wealthy utilise government offices to further their corporate power, to create monopolies, and stifle threats to their profits.

That is not a free market... that is fucking communism.

Anarch, trust the wisdom of Aristotle. ANY excess or ANY deficiency should be avoided. Do you want to live in an Plutocracy? Surely no more than you want to live in a Communist state, I'd wager. The problem with the "free" market is that it isn't free in practice. People with sufficient wealth become capable of bending or even breaking the rules, and will DO so in order to preserve their wealth and power. Now, is there any REALISTIC way to prevent that without some sort of government interference? I assume you dislike corporatism, yet the "free" market we have will inevitably lead to one without some sort of additional checks and balances. If what drives the free market to succeed is self interest (which it is- similar to evolution by natural selection), then what moral reasoning would prevent someone with a sufficient piece of the pie from manipulating the rules to allow them to continue to hold on to it and get more? NOTHING. You blame "the government" for this "corporate" system we have, but it is the very free market itself that has led to it. Who do you think are behind these "corporations" that "buy the government?" The very same people who amassed large quantities of wealth and power from the free market, or inherited it from their parents.

No extreme will ever work. Capitalism is a brilliant invention by our species, and is responsible for much good. But REASON must always temper it, and anything else we as a society try to do. If we forgo reason, and simply life our lives blindly tied to catch-phrase ethics, we will always end up defeating our own aims.

[palerider]

Anarch, trust the wisdom of Aristotle. ANY excess or ANY deficiency should be avoided. Do you want to live in an Plutocracy? Surely no more than you want to live in a Communist state, I'd wager. The problem with the "free" market is that it isn't free in practice. People with sufficient wealth become capable of bending or even breaking the rules, and will DO so in order to preserve their wealth and power. Now, is there any REALISTIC way to prevent that without some sort of government interference? I assume you dislike corporatism, yet the "free" market we have will inevitably lead to one without some sort of additional checks and balances. If what drives the free market to succeed is self interest (which it is- similar to evolution by natural selection), then what moral reasoning would prevent someone with a sufficient piece of the pie from manipulating the rules to allow them to continue to hold on to it and get more? NOTHING. You blame "the government" for this "corporate" system we have, but it is the very free market itself that has led to it. Who do you think are behind these "corporations" that "buy the government?" The very same people who amassed large quantities of wealth and power from the free market, or inherited it from their parents.

No extreme will ever work. Capitalism is a brilliant invention by our species, and is responsible for much good. But REASON must always temper it, and anything else we as a society try to do. If we forgo reason, and simply life our lives blindly tied to catch-phrase ethics, we will always end up defeating our own aims.

Why should capitalism be seen as an only solution though?.....It only works to the greater good when all things considered it balances to yield some gain to all..... and you know this is the true locus. I am not against capatilsm, but I fear some of my wordly cousins are soo engrained with the idea of complete self gain, they fail to recognise that selfish acts only appeal to the individual or individual groups of people. When all is done no one man is an island....as much as I may have millions in the bank I still depend on my neighbour not to strike me down dead in envy if nought else......

[Cartesiantheater]

Why should capitalism be seen as an only solution though?.....It only works to the greater good when all things considered it balances to yield some gain to all..... and you know this is the true locus. I am not against capatilsm, but I fear some of my wordly cousins are soo engrained with the idea of complete self gain, they fail to recognise that selfish acts only appeal to the individual or individual groups of people. When all is done no one man is an island....as much as I may have millions in the bank I still depend on my neighbour not to strike me down dead in envy if nought else......

Well, a free market has the advantage of keeping goods close to their true value. Competition breeds better goods and services. Obviously it is not perfect, but it is a good balance. Everything is a trade-off. You must decide what you want out of the game.

[palerider]

Already the infamous CT balances on a narrow argument........he treats value of goods as some kind of remarkable line that which those who are poor will not cross. The difficulty you propose is when and where is the line drawn?

The whole point of capatalism is that you are not drawn into the poverty debate until you can no longer sustain that line which is above a defined level of poverty........in modern day terms this is not so simple...nor easily excused.......

[Anarch]

If I didn't know better I'd say CT flip flopped....

I mean when he was addressing me his tone on the subject went one way.. then addressing palerider in a different manner.....

GO figure lol .

[palerider]

If I didn't know better I'd say CT flip flopped....

I mean when he was addressing me his tone on the subject went one way.. then addressing palerider in a different manner.....

GO figure lol .

No CT is not a monster....I can almost understand CT's thinking in many ways.......but CT is in a gap that provides him with a reasonable living.

I have said before and I'll say it again......I on the the other hand....as an opposite to CT I gave up everything........at the age of 44 I now have to rebuild my whole world.....and there are many 40's peope who share the same boat and for different reasons.......

But my point is not at CT....CT merely raises a very useful and poignant question....and one we must all either be prepared to accept or else loose...where and when do we accept the line of poverty??

[Anarch]

BY no means is CT a monster.

Not at all.


Just pointing out 20 something maliablity of opinion....


I love you Cart

[palerider]

No CT is not a monster....I can almost understand CT's thinking in many ways.......but CT is in a gap that provides him with a reasonable living.

I have said before and I'll say it again......I on the the other hand....as an opposite to CT I gave up everything........at the age of 44 I now have to rebuild my whole world.....and there are many 40's peope who share the same boat and for different reasons.......

But my point is not at CT....CT merely raises a very useful and poignant question....and one we must all either be prepared to accept or else loose...where and when do we accept the line of poverty??

Meh there is such futility....... I like you Anarch live on the bread line everyday.......I have a total of £484 left to live off when all is paid......my food bill is already at £400.......I like many people am lost to understand the current thinking......I don't eat expensive foods.....all of mybils are paid.....and yet I feel as if I am made to suffer someone elses pain........tell me how do I get out of this.....THIS??

[palerider]

Meh there is such futility....... I like you Anarch live on the bread line everyday.......I have a total of £484 left to live off when all is paid......my food bill is already at £400.......I like many people am lost to understand the current thinking......I don't eat expensive foods.....all of mybils are paid.....and yet I feel as if I am made to suffer someone elses pain........tell me how do I get out of this.....THIS??

My whole life is one of poverty and I am done for accepting it.......now come....follow me....give up all that feeds you and live simply by your means.....meh.......I'm sick and tired of political idiots telling me what I can and can't do.........I can't afford a holiday, I can't afford a holiday from you!!!

[TC]

Free market? or even a definition of capitalism. What it represents is consumerism, it has no flag or nationality, just a different language when they pay for the pair of jeans at the counter, and the credit is carried the same way no matter if its a street bazaar in Moscow or a mall in Dallas. We can call the politics anything we like, and even argue the ideology, but the jeans still get bought no matter what.

What fails is when the credit out-steps the income, personally or nationally.

[palerider]

Free market? or even a definition of capitalism. What it represents is consumerism, it has no flag or nationality, just a different language when they pay for the pair of jeans at the counter, and the credit is carried the same way no matter if its a street bazaar in Moscow or a mall in Dallas. We can call the politics anything we like, and even argue the ideology, but the jeans still get bought no matter what.

What fails is when the credit out-steps the income, personally or nationally.

Oh TC...a minute...almost tiny partial answer......I mean yes there's the borrowing and the extrotianate lending.......but you see in all of that I had absoutely no part......where on my line of bread does that leave me??

Its almost as if a single idiot expert can expouse certain terms....and within that people ike me and Anarch are blended into the same maguire......that we are all selflesly to blame for the idiots of fortune.......meh....run all of that by me again.......meh....hang on......where was my default in the illusional rudimentary acll for rich boys play.....meh....GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY LIFE.......I owe you all nothing......nothing at all!!!

[tahn1000]

capitalism doesn't work when there is no such thing as a "free market". when the gold standard was dropped the market was no longer "free" because one currency had become the standard by which all other economies were measured, regardless of the real value and cost of any product. it also permanently overvalued the "face value" of that currency, the US$. more that that with heavy subsidizing to any industry the resulting yield or product becomes unreasonably cheap and undervalued, causing massive competitive difficulties to both the local and export markets of any country on which the the junk yeild or product is dumped on.

there is nothing "free" about the global market.

[palerider]

I owe you nothing at all......

[TC]

Oh TC...a minute...almost tiny partial answer......I mean yes there's the borrowing and the extrotianate lending.......but you see in all of that I had absoutely no part......where on my line of bread does that leave me??

Well since I don't know your circumstance ( economically) I really don't know. I once lived in a tent and stole ( relative to no licence) fish from the river to survive, by most standards it would probably be classed as poverty, and several weeks later I had a job plastering houses, I simply exchanged the tent for a one room flat, and the fish for a Big Mac.

I'm not trying to be simplistic here, but isn't it relative to each person how they define their circumstance, or the particular ideology they adhere too? I mean as long as we have the ability to change our situation.

[tahn1000]

i went through 5 years of high school with three navy skirts, different to each other and only one of them was like the official school uniform. poverty? i think it's in the eye of the one who must live with it.

[palerider]

Well since I don't know your circumstance ( economically) I really don't know. I once lived in a tent and stole ( relative to no licence) fish from the river to survive, by most standards it would probably be classed as poverty, and several weeks later I had a job plastering houses, I simply exchanged the tent for a one room flat, and the fish for a Big Mac.

I'm not trying to be simplistic here, but isn't it relative to each person how they define their circumstance, or the particular ideology they adhere too? I mean as long as we have the ability to change our situation.

A remarkable filppancy....but heres my story.......never owed a penny more or less....always paid my debts in full......perhaps you missed a story or two in the threads on AO.....save to say I am where I am........I've paid my way.......and still I swimbackwards......to the pale on the hill and the hill pips mine......so such a solitude should sing........blah ha meh wha....bla....mah.....srup n bah.....flah....barb....almost pointless

[TC]

i went through 5 years of high school with three navy skirts, different to each other and only one of them was like the official school uniform. poverty? i think it's in the eye of the one who must live with it.

Agreed. I know each persons life story has its own value, both in what we call being poor, and having substance. I left America long ago, more less starting over with change in my pocket, a wife and two small children. Learned a new language, lived in one room, worked two jobs to finally get a bigger place. Poor? its relative, but during that time my kids collected old clothes to send over to Poland who had just dumped the old soviet rule, my daughters reasoning was simple, they needed it.

We always have more than someone else in the world, and I suppose we could find all the reasons why the world is the way it is. But for me, all I saw was raising my kids by whatever means I could, even if that meant leaving the country I was born in. But when its all said and done...I'm rich in more ways than I can count.