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Thread: The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric?

  1. #1
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric?

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    The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric?

    Rhetoric is described as language that is not honest, sincere, or meaningful.

    I am French. French has no word that equates to freedom or free will as understood by the English. This makes freedom and land of the free pure rhetorical statements and basically a dishonest statement. These terms are ideas or a reality that are impossible to have.

    Freedom and free will then just becomes something that I would name as liberty. Liberty is described as permission especially to go freely within specified limits. That says to me that we are only free to follow the rules of society and those in power.

    That being the case, is land of the free a true and meaningful expression?

    Would it be more accurate to say land of liberty to follow the rules?

    Free will is defined as freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.

    Free will translates to being your own master and not having your will hampered by any outside influence not of your choosing.

    Does any law or divine command negate free will, freedom of choice and the notion of a ---- Land of the free?

    Regards
    DL

  2. #2
    Survivalist! Freddy's Avatar
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    Free will is an illusion! Human behavior is biologically and sociologically determined.

    "Freedom... paint me a picture!"
    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" G. Santayana

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    Lucky survivor Seasoned Member stayoffmymoon's Avatar
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    .sadjflkjagsdlkjalsgd
    Last edited by stayoffmymoon; May 6th, 2012 at 6:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric?
    Rhetoric of the worst kind.


    I am French. French has no word that equates to freedom or free will as understood by the English. This makes freedom and land of the free pure rhetorical statements and basically a dishonest statement. These terms are ideas or a reality that are impossible to have.
    I am US born, my wife is french. LIberte perhaps... Lord knows I prefer the word liberty to freedom. A cop can arrest my freedom ... so could any thug I suppose.... but my liberty to choose to resist remains. As for the saying "land of the free"...

    It is followed by "home of the brave"


    and that breeds stupid propaganda

    Would it be more accurate to say land of liberty to follow the rules?
    No, This is the land of the watched and stalked. Our libertys inculde such wonderful entitlements from the state that include but are not limited to , "no knock search warrents" These have been used to execute lives. This crazy nations wants to regulate the net... the internet is intrernation yet some fucked up people in power think that the USA should Police the net....

    Ask kim dot com of mega upload

    We are invading nation afater nation after nation.... I am sick of this bully nation invading other nations.... but I damn sure have no army to stop it. .. and my bitching about it will change little... neither will my corpse... fuck it...

    Free will is defined as freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.

    Free will translates to being your own master and not having your will hampered by any outside influence not of your choosing.
    In the freest nation in the world elements in the free nation began to push propaganda as a means to keep the public in check... Now today the freest nation is the most propagandized nation. Our opinion shaped for us by newspaper,TV,raido, internet cells and on and on.... from any outlet the state can think to use it does use.... Not everyone understands this... infact the state goes to great lengths to keep it's citizens ignorant...

    No person is so hoplessly lost than a slave that thinks he is a freeman.
    Last edited by Anarch; May 7th, 2012 at 1:12 PM. Reason: Edited for the posteers in the thread that have no clue how controled they really are
    Jim Crow America relegated Blacks to the back of buses. Israel wants Arabs excluded from the bus entirely.

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    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Global Moderator lycanox's Avatar
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    Depends what you compared too. If you look at n Korea. The US is indeed the land of the free.
    However compared with what it should be, it does not hold up.
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    Survivalist! Reef Badlaw's Avatar
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    America's only been in existence for about 230 years. Most of the good motto's were already in use.

    As an example, every nation's fighting-ships have had motto's for two-thousand years. They're ideals, lending-to interpretations of the 'spirit' in which the ship serves and sails. -Not edicts lightning-struck in stone.

    fortiter, fideliter, feliciter

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    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    I think a few people around here have no idea how free they are.
    Be Impeccable with Your Word
    Don't Take Anything Personally
    Don't Make Assumptions
    Always Do Your Best

  8. #8
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    Free will is an illusion! Human behavior is biologically and sociologically determined.

    "Freedom... paint me a picture!"
    I follow your thinking but think that the key word is determined. If the conditions at hand that are prompting us to decide something were different, then so would our choice be.

    Choices lead to choices. If your dad had decided to not pester your mother on that particular day and moment, you would not be here to choose anything.

    We still have free will as it is something that we can give up just based on desire.
    This can even be tested and proven.


    Regards
    DL
    Last edited by Greatest I am; May 7th, 2012 at 1:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch View Post
    Rhetoric of the worst kind.




    I am US born, my wife is french. LIberte perhaps... Lord knows I prefer the word liberty to freedom. A cop can arrest my freedom ... so could any thug I suppose.... but my liberty to choose to resist remains. As for the saying "land of the free"...

    It is followed by "home of the brave"


    and that breeds stupid propaganda



    No, This is the land of the watched and stalked. Our libertys inculde such wonderful entitlements from the state that include but are not limited to , "no knock search warrents" These have been used to execute lives. This crazy nations wants to regulate the net... the internet is intrernation yet some fucked up people in power think that the USA should Police the net....

    Ask kim dot com of mega upload

    We are invading nation afater nation after nation.... I am sick of this bully nation invading other nations.... but I damn sure have no army to stop it. .. and my bitching about it will change little... neither will my corpse... fuck it...



    In the freest nation in the world elements in the free nation began to push propaganda as a means to keep the public in check... Now today the freest nation is the most propagandized nation. Our opinion shaped for us by newspaper,TV,raido, internet cells and on and on.... from any outlet the state can think to use it does use.... Not everyone understands this... infact the state goes to great lengths to keep it's citizens ignorant...

    No person is so hoplessly lost than a slave that thinks he is a freeman.
    No argument but I think that many of the E U nations have way more freedom than here.

    Drug use and prostitution come to mind. Victimless crimes.

    Regards
    DL

  10. #10
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    Depends what you compared too. If you look at n Korea. The US is indeed the land of the free.
    However compared with what it should be, it does not hold up.
    + 1

    Regards
    DL

  11. #11
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPain View Post
    I think a few people around here have no idea how free they are.
    How free can one be in our oligarchies?

    Hmm. Patriot act +

    http://themoderatevoice.com/70680/ar...ur-papers-usa/

    http://www.modernghana.com/news/3919...g-soon-in.html

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/20...orced-in-2013/

    are not good news to many.

    Regards
    DL

  12. #12
    Survivalist! Freddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    I follow your thinking but think that the key word is determined. If the conditions at hand that are prompting us to decide something were different, then so would our choice be.

    Choices lead to choices. If your dad had decided to not pester your mother on that particular day and moment, you would not be here to choose anything.

    We still have free will as it is something that we can give up just based on desire.
    This can even be tested and proven
    .


    Regards
    DL
    Really, show us empirical proof of free will then.
    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" G. Santayana

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    no boom proven. free will exersized

    Life with out free will is not life at all.. it is a configuration of cogs a sprockets not unlike a pocket watch or thermostat. Our life may damn well be preplaned but it is not pre lived. We have choice. WE can do anything we want if we will it.
    Jim Crow America relegated Blacks to the back of buses. Israel wants Arabs excluded from the bus entirely.

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    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC's Avatar
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    Perhaps the greatest threat to an established freedom or liberty ( obviously relative) is apathy. The comfort zone of most people is enough to ebb away at the original theory presented in the constitution and the experiment of democracy. The escape from old world monarchies and serfdom brought out the best of each nation that migrated to the new world, and the struggle to maintain this short lived experiment has given way to a taken for granted mentality. The original thought behind the constitution was not a defense from foreign threats, but a safe guard from its own governmental establishment, to withstand the ever present tendency towards a dictatorship rule.

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    You have nailed it I think.. Apathy.

    This current generation is full of that type of person... I had no clue but here recently I have got to see alot more people.... The other day I am running to my car with about 3 or 5 pizza. Literally running cause my car is over there and I want to hurry in every way I can. Anyways this bitch yells at me saying "learn to walk fucking asshole" and I am like.... Learn to walk? who says this kind of thing??? As I am leaving the parking lot I see the old fat bitch that yelled at me... or more correctly she saw me again.. then she whipped out her I phone and started taking pics of my car and telling me how I was so busted....

    Fat people yelling at less fat people over choosing to run instead of walk to ones car...

    An attitude of entitlement and self gratification has been ingrained and that ingraninng did not include challenging bad government... because that is work and most folks are not gratified in their work... Apathy.... it is a bitch.
    Jim Crow America relegated Blacks to the back of buses. Israel wants Arabs excluded from the bus entirely.

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    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC's Avatar
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    The crime of running has gone to far....those found guilty should be shot on sight, how dare they run to their car with pizzas, is there no dignity left in this world?

  17. #17
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    Really, show us empirical proof of free will then.
    It is your will in question. You just have to choose to give it up to my will.

    Do so by beginning your next reply with a Y.

    Regards
    DL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch View Post
    no boom proven. free will exersized

    Life with out free will is not life at all.. it is a configuration of cogs a sprockets not unlike a pocket watch or thermostat. Our life may damn well be preplaned but it is not pre lived. We have choice. WE can do anything we want if we will it.
    Exactly. Freddy may choose to show the truth of that.

    Regards
    DL

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC View Post
    Perhaps the greatest threat to an established freedom or liberty ( obviously relative) is apathy. The comfort zone of most people is enough to ebb away at the original theory presented in the constitution and the experiment of democracy. The escape from old world monarchies and serfdom brought out the best of each nation that migrated to the new world, and the struggle to maintain this short lived experiment has given way to a taken for granted mentality. The original thought behind the constitution was not a defense from foreign threats, but a safe guard from its own governmental establishment, to withstand the ever present tendency towards a dictatorship rule.
    We live in an oligarchy. I do not think it can go to dictatorship but oligarchies are not really that far from it to begin with.

    Plato postulated that we should strive for a timography from here but the citizens are in the apathy that you suggest.
    They seem to enjoy slavery.

    Regards
    DL

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    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    Tell me folks...In what nation of the world are people more free then the United States of America?
    Be Impeccable with Your Word
    Don't Take Anything Personally
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    Always Do Your Best

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    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Global Moderator lycanox's Avatar
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    How about parts of europe.

    Alcohol, pot, gay marriage and prostitution are legal. There is Freedom of speech and equal rights for nearly every group.
    Has an open democracy where each ideology can successfully enter and win elections without having to appease ultra right or religious groups.
    Open borders with neighboring nations. A far stronger middle class.

    Etc.
    http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/139/8/a/logo_by_lycanox.png

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    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lycanox View Post
    How about parts of europe.

    Alcohol, pot, gay marriage and prostitution are legal. There is Freedom of speech and equal rights for nearly every group.
    Has an open democracy where each ideology can successfully enter and win elections.
    Open borders with neighboring nations. A far stronger middle class.

    Etc.
    I think those same countries have higher tax's then the USA and more restrictions/regulations on businesses..... the right wingers will call that oppressive. Also I heard things like insulting a police officer is a felony in Spain and I wonder what other strange laws there are on the books over in Europe? Personally I agree with you but those who really think they are oppressed will point to that stuff as restricting their freedom.

    The actual correct answers would be places like Somalia and Afghanistan where the oppressive central government doesn't chose to burden the citizens with paying for things like roads and public hospitals, where freedom comes from the barrel of a gun.
    Be Impeccable with Your Word
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  23. #23
    Survivalist! Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPain View Post
    Tell me folks...In what nation of the world are people more free then the United States of America?


    Regards
    DL

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    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    Thats not an answer GIA its a comment... where are people more free than right now in America? Fell free to use history if you want as in any point in time.
    Be Impeccable with Your Word
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    Don't Make Assumptions
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    Survivalist! MaximumPain's Avatar
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    What freedoms do you want? What do you wish you could do but are not free to do it? I can think of a few things but I want people to post what it is that they are not free to do that they feel they should be free to do?
    Be Impeccable with Your Word
    Don't Take Anything Personally
    Don't Make Assumptions
    Always Do Your Best

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