Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

[Greatest I am]

Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.

Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.

Having said this, I recognize why the ancient thinkers would say that God is pleased when he creates evil in the world.

Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

Regards
DL

[Lillith]

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

People. also known as human "beings'

[Traveler]

So what is the measurement used to quantify evil, there is none is there !

Evil is simply the absence of good. Like dark is simply the absence of light. The more you push good away the more evil is left just as the more you cover the light the more darkness is evident.

But that is basically the objective of you quest isn't it.

[Lillith]

=Traveler;495643]So what is the measurement used to quantify evil, there is none is there !

Trav, got a question for you.

Do you believe Jesus is going to save the true Christian believers from the bad az aliens that are coming for humanity? The ones who are orchestrating the New World order, controlling the minds of world govt leaders and and working towards the enslavment and domination of mankind? Would such a devious plan qualify as evil?

[Traveler]

Trav, got a question for you.

Do you believe Jesus is going to save the true Christian believers from the bad az aliens that are coming for humanity? The ones who are orchestrating the New World order, controlling the minds of world govt leaders and and working towards the enslavment and domination of mankind? Would such a devious plan qualify as evil?

You sure jumped to a lot of conclusions there didn't you !

Aliens are not setting up the new world order, they are only coming here because they think they will profit but they are just as much pawns as we are. When Christ returns at the battle of Armageddon it is for all humanity, not just the Christians.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[Beatnik Bob]

Trav, got a question for you.

Do you believe Jesus is going to save the true Christian believers from the bad az aliens that are coming for humanity?

Aliens vs. Jesus.

What an awesome movie!


Jesus would still win...

The ones who are orchestrating the New World order, controlling the minds of world govt leaders and and working towards the enslavment and domination of mankind?

We're all already enslaved to something.

But I wouldn't mind being enslaved if I could still do whatever I'm doing now. If aliens want to rule the planet... They couldn't be any worse than current leadership.

Would such a devious plan qualify as evil?

No.

[Greatest I am]

People. also known as human "beings'

We have no choice that I can see in this.
Let me explain.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Lillith.
Do you see any other choice for us other than to do evil from the losers POV?
I would not mind finding another way but cannot see it.

Regards
DL

[Lillith]

We have no choice that I can see in this.
Let me explain.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

Yes, I really do understand this perfectly. To be succinct as I can theres the old saying....Rocks, shet, etc always rolls down hill. As human beings generally think it must be someone elses fault ...dominos effect, jeez.theres probably a thousand ways to express the blame game we engage in on a daily basis.

Why should the god thing be exempt? Well maybe is due to the need to believe theres something or someone, some ideal thats more superior to who we ae culumatively and collectively as beings. We do tend to make some really bad choices sometimes, the memory and the guilt can be terribly painful and shameful.

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature.

Yes, it does.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

I personally dont believe in any of the Adam and Eve story.....to me its nonsense. To others, its exactly what they need.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.

I tend to think that what is called sin....is just a natural part of the human experience. ITs not nice, often horrible, but it is what it is..

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Then i guess, I would sometimes be called a Gnostic naturalist sans the Christian slant. My God is the Universe, not a person, place or particular thing.

Lillith.
Do you see any other choice for us other than to do evil from the losers POV?
I would not mind finding another way but cannot see it.

I saw it for myself, but I cannot see it for you. The way. Because its an experience that must be experienced as opposed to being shared.

Well, I know we are energy with tremendous, unfathomable capabilities and potential, and I do believe in the Soul with the Body being the envelope. With a continium of that energy after the organic body reaches functional obsolescence.

The idea of Free choice? Not sure about that at all. That it truly even exists. Fallacy. And often, I think thatc for sure theres no such thing at all. Much ado about nothing. That every single good or bad choice made is one that we were predestined to make..and that that destined choice, or memory of choosing it prior to birth, is veiled by the density of the material body and environments in which we live. We are not really functioning at our fullest abilites under the drag of the organic body, and led to believe that its all about having free choice hype- which really results in so many of the various debates, religious and sub sects that have been at battle for eons.

I am at total peace with what you all call God, and dont believe in the idea of heaven or hell as a reward. To me, that merely enslavement of the mentality.

I do know though, that the soul when its released, not confined and unleashed - travels to places we could only wish to remember. That the Soul came here to learn, perhaps, how or what its like to be of the human species and that it has a for lack of a better word, a mind of its own.

As such, knowing this, I am at total peace with what you and others might call God. Nor do I struggle with what I call it the Universe. I know, with the same faith that many Christians carry, that one day, I'll return to its origin, awe and beauty.

[Greatest I am]

The Eden myth, as Christians see it, is nonsense for sure.

The way the Jews see it, I like and have learned from it. Simply stated, they see it as a rite of passage from child to adult and as that, it makes a lot of sense to me. I see it somewhat the way this link shows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

You do seem Gnostic in your thinking as they think as compared to Christians who do not.

I do not believe in predestination or reincarnation though.

I have a little test to show that we do have free will but it would not be any good for those who believe in predestination ,because even passing it successfully, you could just fall back on saying it was predestined for you to pass it. That makes it a catch 22.

Do you have something that pushes your belief in reincarnation?
Memories or what not?

Regards
DL

[Musibike]

Obvious this is a BIASED MUSLIM site.

[Reef Badlaw]

DL = delusional = Duh Loser-null...

[Confuzion]

We, humans, have something called free will. God could do something about us causing unnecessary suffering among ourselves, but what would the point of free will be if he did that?

Each of us is equipped with free will, we can choose to move towards god (love) or to move away from god (fear).

[Max]

Its not free will if theres a negative punishment for not doing a VERY SPECIFIC act that god wants. Then its just an illusion of free will.

If we had true free will from god, then worshipping said god would be completely irrelevent to our chances of getting into heaven.

[Greatest I am]

We, humans, have something called free will. God could do something about us causing unnecessary suffering among ourselves, but what would the point of free will be if he did that?

Each of us is equipped with free will, we can choose to move towards god (love) or to move away from god (fear).

You are aware of what God did to A & E the first time they showed autonomy and that they could do their will instead of Gods.

God threw his hissy fit and free will was shown to be what it is. An order to do as told and only the will of God.

We both know that God runs a tyranny and not a place where we are free.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Its not free will if theres a negative punishment for not doing a VERY SPECIFIC act that god wants. Then its just an illusion of free will.

If we had true free will from god, then worshipping said god would be completely irrelevent to our chances of getting into heaven.

+ 1

You are correct.
Fools will think that a carrot and stick theology is one with free will or a choice without compulsion.


Regards
DL