The Real Front Lines

[ABeginner]

no
Abeliever is a well known Judiazer who prowls forums to convert the ignorant - and when challenged argues with the NT that black is white.
opps ELLEN WHITE that is

hehehehehe....




Paul waged a steady campaign against a group of false teachers, commonly known as Judiazers, who had sown great confusion among the apostle's recent converts by teaching that becoming Jewish was necessary for salvation."


so do i.
Ellen White, the proven lady of 51 lies did a lot of damage to the belief system of americans ofcourse she is not alone.

So, why the conflict? Weren't they all Christians? And what became of each of these groups?

Paul was particularly forceful in his instructions regarding the Judiazers and their gospel+religious works. The apostle charged, "Evidently, some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ." Paul's solution to this problem was that "even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" The gospel of the Judiazers "is really no gospel at all." (Galatians1:6-9)

Shalom Lucy, good to hear from you. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

[LucySmith]

Abeliever,

i do delight in revealing religious fakes such as yourself and your faux gospel the NT warns against.
BTW u ''bless'' no one inc. yourself.
why?
a person who deliberately alters the Gospel is UNDER A CURSE.
WOE TO YOU....

[tahn1000]

Shalom Lillith, don't you know me by now? I'm A Hebrew. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

and here is an example of your hypocrisy. you are not a hebrew, but a fraud. hebrew, first of all is a language, and only in the old testament is it used to define a people - specifically, a race of people ENSLAVED by the israelites. the peoples defined as "hebrew" in the bible NO LONGER EXIST. further to that not all israelites are jews (in these modern days all called "jews", even though the term specifically defines only the descendants of aaron as being jews which is shortened from the word "jeshurun", which means holy ones).

[LucySmith]

well he pretends u see.
He wishes to be a faux jew.
there is a little clique of them inc Latuwr and hethatreadsit.[whatever] All out of the same religious stable.[armstrongism and adventism]
The Judaizers who INSIST we all mix the law to the jews only with grace.
the fakers.

[Lillith]

Shalom Lillith, don't you know me by now? I'm A Hebrew. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

Really? You are not Jewish, but you're a Hebrew?

Who Are the Hebrews? By Menachem Posner

The first person to be called a Hebrew was Abraham,1 and the name commonly refers to his descendants, known as the Jewish people. The word for Hebrew used in the Bible is עברי (pronounced "Ivri"), meaning "of or pertaining to עבר-ever." So what does "ever" mean?

The True Body of Messiah was commissioned to go out into all the world to be a Witness, and testify concerning the One True Gospel. I can very confidently tell you that the One True Gospel has not been testified to for almost 1800 years, and you even admit that there is not 1 person who has come forth as a mirror image of Messiah (at least from those who profess the same substitutional gospel as you do). Now, if you do think there has been some who are testifying to the One True Gospel, please point them out to me, otherwise, believe that the Foundation has been laid for the testimony of the 2nd Witness and it is beginning to be declared, even as we speak. The Foundation of the One True Church is the Gospel Yeshua taught His disciples, namely, what Moses wrote concerning His suffering, death, burial, and 3rd day resurrection which is found in the mysterious ritual of the Red Heifer. The Jews look at this ritual as the Foundation of the Torah http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books...ivals-1/57.htm, and it is no coincidence that it is. Before any worship can be performed by a Body of Believers, the requirements of this ritual must be believed and followed. Baptism is a direct requirement of this ritual, once you have had the Ashes of Yeshua sprinkled upon you, namely, His death, burial, and 3rd day resurrection. Living Water had to be added to those Ashes (His dead body), and that requirement DEMANDS Yeshua rising from the dead. Living Water IS Eternal Life, and it's so simple when you "see" it, but to those who can't, it is foolishness or a stumblingblock. ABeginner

A Hebrew who prostelizes for the Bible and that Christ is the Messiah aka Yeshua?Hebrew who supports the teachings of the Apostle Paul?

This has become quite the faddy trend among the Christians in the last 5 years to use Jewish teachings and try to assimilate them into Christianity?

[LucySmith]

the weird thing is
armstrong was a public declared pervert, raping his daughter for years
http://hwarmstrong.com/incest-herber...-confesses.htm


ellen white a publically declared liar.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...ist/sneaky.htm


so how come these apostate religious frauds are BELIEVED BY MILLIONS?
i guess taking STUPID PILLS 3 times a day is the answer.

[tahn1000]

the jews like to lie about the hebrews. however you either believe the propaganda, or the bible. the israelites are not descended from the hebews, the isaelites ENSLAVED the hebrews. but then Menachem Posner is a rabbi, so you would expect him to lie to the ignorant goyim.

[LucySmith]

well for the jews, their whole theory/belief is invalid.
why?
It was all detonated in 70ad by the roman general titus who publically declare as history shows ''i have never seen a nation SO DESERTED BY THEIR GOD'' - its all there to see.
so they had nothing left of their OT laws - it was nuked and millions killed. So they gathered together remnants but have nothing left of their original laws and ordinances of Moses. therefore they are fakes, just as the church system is a unholy fake too.
'fakers abound,.'

the christian church has altered the gospel and its true salvation messages and the jews have hobbled together some weird mixture that is a hybrid of OT beliefs and cause them nothing but pain and hurts.

It is like some weird cloud of stupidity comes over people and they will believe anything BUT THE GOSPEL OF LIFE IN THE SPIRIT.

IGNORANT PEOPLE get all mixed up with perverts and crazies and suddenly these fakes HAVE THE TRUTH AND ARE THE TRUE BELIEVERS.

WHAT OF THE GOSPEL - that abolIshed death and defeated the devil -'' oh no dont believe that,'' they say AND MOCK ANYONE who does.

the goal of Jesus was TO ALTER the status quo an d BRING LIFE where death rules

but few only believe such salvation and goodnews - the majority are boring religious crazy nutz.

[ABeginner]

and here is an example of your hypocrisy. you are not a hebrew, but a fraud. hebrew, first of all is a language, and only in the old testament is it used to define a people - specifically, a race of people ENSLAVED by the israelites. the peoples defined as "hebrew" in the bible NO LONGER EXIST. further to that not all israelites are jews (in these modern days all called "jews", even though the term specifically defines only the descendants of aaron as being jews which is shortened from the word "jeshurun", which means holy ones).

Shalom tahn1000, we have had this conversation over a year ago http://www.armageddononline.org/forums/threads/30760-Study-the-Scriptures!-(Part-1)?p=443624&viewfull=1#post443624, and you were "dull" of hearing then, so has anything changed in your ability to grasp and understand? Maybe a little more help is needed. Consider the words of the Apostle Paul concerning WHO a "true Jew" is:

Rom 2:28-29
(28) For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly (a physical descendant), nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
(29) But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from Elohim.

Now tahn, if we apply the Apostle Paul's logic in understanding that a "true Jew" is one who by the Spirit, IS inwardly a Jew, and receives his PRAISE from Elohim, then can't we also make the same conclusion that a "true Hebrew" is one who inwardly is a Hebrew and has received from Elohim the crossing over from Satan's house INTO His? Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

[tahn1000]

i really don't give a stuff what paul described as a jew, or how you twist what is written. the FACT that the hebrew speaking people were ENSLAVED by the israelites is ENSHRINED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

[ABeginner]

well for the jews, their whole theory/belief is invalid.
why?
It was all detonated in 70ad by the roman general titus who publically declare as history shows ''i have never seen a nation SO DESERTED BY THEIR GOD'' - its all there to see.
so they had nothing left of their OT laws - it was nuked and millions killed. So they gathered together remnants but have nothing left of their original laws and ordinances of Moses. therefore they are fakes, just as the church system is a unholy fake too.
'fakers abound,.'

the christian church has altered the gospel and its true salvation messages and the jews have hobbled together some weird mixture that is a hybrid of OT beliefs and cause them nothing but pain and hurts.

It is like some weird cloud of stupidity comes over people and they will believe anything BUT THE GOSPEL OF LIFE IN THE SPIRIT.

IGNORANT PEOPLE get all mixed up with perverts and crazies and suddenly these fakes HAVE THE TRUTH AND ARE THE TRUE BELIEVERS.

WHAT OF THE GOSPEL - that abolIshed death and defeated the devil -'' oh no dont believe that,'' they say AND MOCK ANYONE who does.

the goal of Jesus was TO ALTER the status quo an d BRING LIFE where death rules

but few only believe such salvation and goodnews - the majority are boring religious crazy nutz.

Shalom Dear Lucy, do you think that a parent who would spank their only good child every time their disobedient children do something wrong, do you think that parent would be considered rational? Wouldn't the police or children's services come an arrest that parent? Would you as a parent punish your good child in the place of your wicked children? The delusional thinking of those who feel Elohim needs to punish His only Good Child just so that He would be able to "forgive" and "forget" the sin of all who confess this delusional doctrine, is rather astonishing. Come out from your delusion Dear Lucy. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

[ABeginner]

i really don't give a stuff what paul described as a jew, or how you twist what is written. the FACT that the hebrew speaking people were ENSLAVED by the israelites is ENSHRINED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Shalom tahn1000, you don't really give a stuff as having ANY belief at all in a Jewish Elohim, or a Hebrew Elohim, and for that matter ANY Elohim. The only belief you have is in the "Extraterrestrials" that visit you from time to time, so why waste any of your precious time on trying to understand Scripture? Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

[tahn1000]

but i'll come to the party - "what advantage then hath the jew?" (jew being the shortened form of jeshurun, as in saducees or holy ones, as in the descendants of aaron) well aparently he wasn't circumcised.

Ro:3:1: What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Ro:3:2: Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Ro:3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Ro:3:29: Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Ro:3:30: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Ro:3:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

so what about the rest of the israelites?

Ro:9:4: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Ro:9:5: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro:9:6: Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Ro:9:7: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Ro:9:8: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Ro:9:9: For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Ro:9:10: And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Ro:9:11: (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

the mistaken christian belief - WHICH CHRIST HIMSELF NEVER TAUGHT - is man is born a sinner. people have just made doctrine of jewish propaganda intended to reinfoce that
- the jews are the chosen (being god's elect) and the children of god
- the murder of christ by the jewish authorities is justified and predestined
- that believing in god does not elevate the gentile (non jew) to the same status as a jew in god's eyes.
- that every non-jew, being born outside the covenant of god, is born a sinner.
- that only only way a gentile, or non-jew, can find favour in god's eye, is to heed the word of christ, and worship the jewish god. in other words "salvation", as it is called, is needed for the believers of the jewish god because they are born outside of the covenant of god to his elect.

but look and consider carefully what else is being said.

NOT ALL ISRAEL IS OF ISRAEL.
NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN [of god]: BUT IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED.

a true jew - one born into "god's convenant" - is only one who is descended from issaac. this exclusively excluded muslims who's common ancestor with jews is ABRAHAM (who are descended from abraham's first born, ishmael. also clearly excluded is every other human outside racial descendancy in the world, in perpetuity.

essentially what is boasted by the jewish religous leaders is that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING OUTSIDE THE RACE OF JEWS DESCENDED FROM ISAAC WILL BE JUDGED JUST FOR BEING BORN OUTSIDE OF THE JEWISH GOD'S EXCLUSIVE PACT. jews need never fear judgement, because they are promised by their covenent with their god that they souls are beyond judgement, an arrogant boast based not on religion, but by the blood which runs through their veins.

BUT IT GOES FURTHER THAN EVEN THIS. read again, "NOT ALL ISRAEL IS OF ISRAEL". what is referenced here is the nation as in jewish race or tribe of israel. yet not all jews are considered to be descended of israel, or JACOB. this very blunt statement says one thing - NOT ALL JEWS ARE TRUE JEWS. bloodline, or descendancy is EVERYTHING.

as further indication that paul worked on behalf of the saducees to establish the position of the jews over the gentiles, we have the following passages -

Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph:2:10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph:2:11: Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph:2:12: That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph:2:13: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

again, and often, the jews call non-jews "strangers" and "aliens" and born outside of the "convenants of promise". and these words are written to those ALREADY CHRISTIANS, but now in the "commonwealth of israel" - which apparently israel would "preside" over. but look, even the "sacrifice" of christ does not make the gentile equal in the eyes of the jew, or the jewish "god". and of course the goyim, even if he calls himself a "christian" is worth even less.

[ABeginner]

but i'll come to the party - "what advantage then hath the jew?" (jew being the shortened form of jeshurun, as in saducees or holy ones, as in the descendants of aaron) well aparently he wasn't circumcised.

Ro:3:1: What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Ro:3:2: Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Ro:3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Ro:3:29: Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Ro:3:30: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Ro:3:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

so what about the rest if the israelites?

Ro:9:4: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Ro:9:5: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro:9:6: Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Ro:9:7: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Ro:9:8: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Ro:9:9: For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Ro:9:10: And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Ro:9:11: (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

the mistaken christian belief - WHICH CHRIST HIMSELF NEVER TAUGHT - is man is born a sinner. people have just made doctrine of jewish propaganda intended to reinfoce that
- the jews are the chosen (being god's elect) and the children of god
- the murder of christ by the jewish authorities is justified and predestined
- that believing in god does not elevate the gentile (non jew) to the same status as a jew in god's eyes.
- that every non-jew, being born outside the covenant of god, is born a sinner.
- that only only way a gentile, or non-jew, can find favour in god's eye, is to heed the word of christ, and worship the jewish god. in other words "salvation", as it is called, is needed for the believers of the jewish god because they are born outside of the covenant of god to his elect.

but look and consider carefully what else is being said.

NOT ALL ISRAEL IS OF ISRAEL.
NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN [of god]: BUT IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED.

a true jew - one born into "god's convenant" - is only one who is descended from issaac. this exclusively excluded muslims who's common ancestor with jews is ABRAHAM (who are descended from abraham's first born, ishmael. also clearly excluded is every other human outside racial descendancy in the world, in perpetuity.

essentially what is boasted by the jewish religous leaders is that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING OUTSIDE THE RACE OF JEWS DESCENDED FROM ISAAC WILL BE JUDGED JUST FOR BEING BORN OUTSIDE OF THE JEWISH GOD'S EXCLUSIVE PACT. jews need never fear judgement, because they are promised by their covenent with their god that they souls are beyond judgement, an arrogant boast based not on religion, but by the blood which runs through their veins.

BUT IT GOES FURTHER THAN EVEN THIS. read again, "NOT ALL ISRAEL IS OF ISRAEL". what is referenced here is the nation as in jewish race or tribe of israel. yet not all jews are considered to be descended of israel, or JACOB. this very blunt statement says one thing - NOT ALL JEWS ARE TRUE JEWS. bloodline, or descendancy is EVERYTHING.

as further indication that paul worked on behalf of the saducees to establish the position of the jews over the gentiles, we have the following passages -

Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph:2:10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph:2:11: Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph:2:12: That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph:2:13: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

again, and often, the jews call non-jews "strangers" and "aliens" and born outside of the "convenants of promise". and these words are written to those ALREADY CHRISTIANS, but now in the "commonwealth of israel" - which apparently israel would "preside" over. but look, even the "sacrifice" of christ does not make the gentile equal in the eyes of the jew, or the jewish "god". and of course the goyim, even if he calls himself a "christian" is worth even less.

Shalom tahn1000, again, why waste your time on trying to understand a people who's advantage is that "they received the oracles (words) of Elohim?" You don't believe in those "oracles" of Elohim, why waste your time? Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

[tahn1000]

i'm only quoting the bible. i'm sorry if that offends you (not).

[Traveler]

But you have only quoted in part while leaving out the rest.

[tahn1000]

"the rest"? i answered with quotes specific to his question.

what am i supposed to sermonize ad nauseum like you?

[palerider]

Not surprising to me that this thread has already began to undermine what it set out to achieve, I mean that in the philosophical sense and not a sarcastic one. I think the arguments here are similar to those used in all kinds of politics, resulting in a never ending and unresolving debate over what means what and what it means to whom...

Like arguments over morality, the whole idea of holding weighty opinion falls as different interpretations and beliefs emerge. I mean the logic is simple and staring us all in the face. Even if you argue logic alone is not sufficient I would agree but also argue back that in the belief of God, that logic is God given and valid as a way of sorting out this mess. At some point logic will fail and render issues over differences in meaning a greater problem. Most problematic of all is that of religeous superstition and overpainted myth in both Judaism and Christianity, perhaps fear of the unknown entity??

I'll have to break soon as I'm out in a street cafe at the moment, but want to return to this and look at what some of you guys have commented on in different ways

[Jake99]

Not surprising to me that this thread has already began to undermine what it set out to achieve, I mean that in the philosophical sense and not a sarcastic one. I think the arguments here are similar to those used in all kinds of politics, resulting in a never ending and unresolving debate over what means what and what it means to whom...

Like arguments over morality, the whole idea of holding weighty opinion falls as different interpretations and beliefs emerge. I mean the logic is simple and staring us all in the face. Even if you argue logic alone is not sufficient I would agree but also argue back that in the belief of God, that logic is God given and valid as a way of sorting out this mess. At some point logic will fail and render issues over differences in meaning a greater problem. Most problematic of all is that of religeous superstition and overpainted myth in both Judaism and Christianity, perhaps fear of the unknown entity??

I'll have to break soon as I'm out in a street cafe at the moment, but want to return to this and look at what some of you guys have commented on in different ways

Logically is how I teach the Bible and logic is the solution to this mess, if only mankind would listen to logic then I would make perfect sense to you. The religious superstitions are valid when you look at how the prophecies presented themself in my life. I am unknown but I want you to know me and listen to me as I present logical solutions for every single problem mankind has.

[Jake99]

No he did not, He labelled the religious leaders of the day as followers of Satan. He claimed that he was the Son of God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Fathers of the Jewish nation.

Do try and get it right next time!

I say the same things Jesus was said to have said and as far as I can see all of you work for Satan all day every day and reject God all day every day. Try and listen up this time.

[ABeginner]

I say the same things Jesus was said to have said and as far as I can see all of you work for Satan all day every day and reject God all day every day. Try and listen up this time.

Shalom Jake99, Yeshua said a lot of things I have never heard you say. He said His FOOD was "to do the will of Him that sent Me, and to finish His work," and He said that work He was to finish is "that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." Now Jake, if Yeshua is FINISHING that work, why do you need to be brought into the picture? How are you going to help in us believing in the One whom He has sent? Do you know anything about the suffering, death, burial, and third day resurrection of the One whom He has sent? Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

[tahn1000]

well he wasn't referring to the jewish god when he said that, was he? but then no true follower of christ calls him "yeshua".

[ABeginner]

well he wasn't referring to the jewish god when he said that, was he? but then no true follower of christ calls him "yeshua".

Shalom tahn1000, why do you pretend to be a "true follower of christ?" Why don't you come clean and tell us who you are a follower of? Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.

[tahn1000]

i am an atheist, abeginner. that means i don't "follow" anyone in the religious sense. i do however respect the man, and his teachings.

[ABeginner]

i am an atheist, abeginner. that means i don't "follow" anyone in the religious sense. i do however respect the man, and his teachings.

Shalom tahn1000, there you go again trying to pretend to respect Him and His teachings. If you respected Him and His teachings, you would not be an atheist. Blessings in The Name, ABeginner.