A Pacifist's Policy...

[evilwill]

I've noticed this a lot at my school and I thought it would make an interesting topic. Note that this isn't particular to my school but most schools around Australia.

In every school there is likely to be at least one bully. Therefore schools tend to develop policies when it comes to these bullies. This universal policy pretty much says: "If you are physically bullied, don't defend yourself with violence, go and cry your eyes out to some teacher..."

Does anyone else see a problem with this? First of all, lack of violence does not deter violence. You cannot expect to stop someone intent on physically harming you without physically defending yourself. If you don't fight back, it just makes things better for the bully as they have an easier task.

Whilst complaining to a teacher may deter the bully due to fear of punishment, it doesn't really solve the problem. The bully will either eventually come back or pick a new target. Either method doesn't really work.

This whole idea of not fighting back just shits me. The fact is there is violence in this world and we are likely to come across it throughout our lives. You are likely to be far worse off if you don't use it to hold your own.

On more that one occassion, I have seen the instigator of a fight get off with less of a punishment than the one that retaliated. That is just utter crap. Again it seems they are trying to deter defending oneself.

Would you rather be a little sore but otherwise alright or standing in front of a teacher telling them how your nose just happened to get broken?

I just can't understand how they think they're doing something right here. Pacifism is just like putting a sign upon your head reading: "Beat me up, I won't fight back."

Now that my rant is done, what have you all to say?

[dutchie]

I have a 12 year old daughter who used to get bullied at school by two girls in her class. It went as far as physical abuse - beatings. Sarah was desparate. And what's more, there was absolutely NO apparent reason for the bullying. Sometimes it's about red hair, body shape or even glasses, but in her case there was no reason at all.

She attended an anti bullying course. For twelve wednesday afternoons she attended sessions. This course was given for a mixed audience of BOTH bullies and kids that were being bullied at school. The focus of this course was on assertively expressing your feelings to the bully, without using physical force. I won't go into detail - suffice to say the expressions used are clear, direct and honest, meant to take the bully off-guard. The bullies in the group were shown (by interviews) what damage their conduct could do to their fellow students.

She applied what she had learned, and was never ever bullied again. Yes, a good verbal approach can work wonders, as long as you are willing to recognize the fact that the bully is doing it out of a feeling of inferiority (often intellectual and/or physical).

Assertivity is NOT the same things as pacifism. And it DOES work, when you have been given the right training.

Returning violence with violence is wrong. You just give the bully more reason to go on bullying, and even more agressively.

[evilwill]

That may be the case for a twelve year old girl. But if you tell a 16 year old guy he's hurting your feelings, don't expect a pat on the back and a sorry.

When it comes to the point of physical abuse, a bully knows what they are doing. There is no 'i didn't mean to hurt them'. It is a intentional attempt at physical harm of another person. They won't stop because you're upset, but they are likely to stop if you hit them back.

Bullies aren't particularly tough, they're just used to everyone not fighting back. If you get hit and you hit back, the bully is going to think twice before doing that again unless they want another black eye.

[dutchie]

This course was for kids between 11 and 16.

Of course this problem gets worse for kids who can go on bullying undisturbed for years and years until it gets to be a part of their character, but even they can be caught off guard by a well placed remark. It's not just "Hey, I'm not happy with what you're doing", it's also idea of making the "friends" of the bully aware of what's really happening.

And yes, of course there are those cases where nothing at all will help. In those cases, I'd say go for it!!

[Defiant Noquisi]

There was a boy that was constantly shoving my son after school. It got to the point that he came home with bent up glasses. When I saw the glasses and asked him about it, he informed me that it had been going on for weeks. He never told me about it until that day because he was afraid.

I went to the school and talked to the principal about it and asked that they contact the mother of this brat and set up a meeting. The school said that they had tried to speak with the mother before (for the same reason) and she seemed to ignore them. I told her if they didnt contact the mother I would bring charges against the school for not protecting my son's safety.

Three days later I get a letter back from the school saying they werent allowed to give me the contact info of the mother. This was nothing like what I had asked for. In the mean time, my son is still getting shoved by this kid.

My son knew that if someone acted in a physically violent way towards him, that he was allowed to do anything neccessary to defend himself. He wasnt allowed to outright beat the shit out of anyone but if he felt he had to hit them back to get them to stop, he was allowed to do it and I would defend his actions.

Knowing this, my son has never defended himself.

I couldnt take it anymore. One day I waited in the bushes and as my son got closer, I saw this punk moving towards my kid. Right before he could shove my son in the back I came screaming at him from the bushes. I was screaming at the top of my lungs and came tearing after this kid.

He took off running as fast as he could. The last thing I said was that I was going to beat the living shit out of his mother if he ever touched my son again.

I could have sworn this kid pissed his pants running.

He never came near my son again.

[evilwill]

Whilst violence was not used, the threat of violence was quite the deterent in that case. I just hate the way the schools influence children into not defending themselves, for that can stay with them for life and no good will come of it.

I agree with DN that one should defend themselves, but there is no need to over the top. Just enough to let the bully know that you can bite back too.

[Defiant Noquisi]

I agree with DN that one should defend themselves, but there is no need to over the top. Just enough to let the bully know that you can bite back too.

Violence has and always will be a deterent. Way back when, when spanking was used in schools there was much less disrespect towards others, especially adults because the threat of the paddle loomed.

Nowadays, kids can act like nasty little punks because there is nothing for them to fear and their parents are too busy to pay attention to what their kids are doing. The bullies get some talking to, maybe some detention or a few day suspension with a note home to busy parents that dont have time to deal with it.

Likewise, defending oneself is nowhere near beating someone up. I think its the biggest load of crapola to dump punishment on a kid who has defended himself and Ive seen it happen way to often. Schools do it to knock the steam out of any kid that may act in a violent way and they are terrified of the liability and potential litigation issues. They are also afraid that the public may view the school as one where violence occurs on a regular basis.

The media is much more apt to put in print and sensationalize violence in the school than it is to report the latest fundraiser.

Not that I support corporal punishment, weve all seen the scarier sides of it on the news. However, with the publicizing of child abuse (child abuse is a very, very BAD thing) the laws passed to protect children have been abused themselves. Now you can be arrested for child abuse for spanking your child.

A quick smack on the rear is one thing, beating a kid is quite another. Ive been the recipient of both. There is a difference both mentally and physically.

Unless society as a whole stands up and pays attention, and not when forced to, bullies will continue and those who defend themselves will get punished because they were "bad" too.

[AnyOtherName]

Violence has and always will be a deterent. Way back when, when spanking was used in schools there was much less disrespect towards others, especially adults because the threat of the paddle loomed.

Nowadays, kids can act like nasty little punks because there is nothing for them to fear and their parents are too busy to pay attention to what their kids are doing. The bullies get some talking to, maybe some detention or a few day suspension with a note home to busy parents that dont have time to deal with it.

I was bullied all through my fifth grade year. I don't know why it started, and I don't even entirely remember who started it. I just remember wanting to never go back to school, getting completely ignored, and just when I thought someone was finally going to talk to me, it would just be to remind me why I was an outcast. My teachers sat and watched it happen. They didn't help me at all, ever, and often made it worse. My grades dropped, and I lost my appetite.

My mom had a meeting with my homeroom teacher about halfway through the year, when it started getting really bad. My mom asked her why the behavior in the classroom wasn't being stopped and she said to my mom, "What do you want me to do? I can't control these kids." And it went on. For a whole year, I was shunned by my whole class. They said that I had "Olivia-germs" and would spread it around to each other, using crossed fingers as a safeguard. Those that didn't participate, left me alone. They would push me against the wall, I would talk to them, and they would pretend I wasn't there, and whenever I walked down the hall, they pointed and whispered behind their hands at me, and then remembered I was there just long enough to laugh.

Because there was no punishment for the kids that started it, what began as a group of maybe five or six boys turned into almost the entire fifth grade. At least, that's how it felt. I remember specifically every week begging my mom not to make me go to school, to call in sick. I had never taken so many sick days before. I looked in the mirror every morning and hated what I saw. I was weak. I could hear their voices in my head. "Don't go near her! She has Olivia-germs! If you touch her, you'll be contaminated!" I was a disease. A leper. An outcast.

It has affected me massively in how I see myself, and how I deal with other people. When I was a kid, I was very comfortable with myself, and confident. They took that away from me. I have slowly regained my self-confidence, but I have never seen myself the same way. I can still hear their voices every once in a while. I am very self-conscious when I am in big groups of people, or even just small groups of my friends. I am always afraid of being myself, because if those kids could hate who I am that much, then why can't my friends?

It sounds overdramatic, and exaggerated. But it happened. It happens to tons of other children every single day. And it gets overlooked. There is no punishment for the kids that shatter confidence and self-esteem with words. Teachers sit by and watch, because they don't want to get involved. We need to find a solution, so that no child ever has to suffer as badly as some of us have. It's an issue that so often gets overlooked, and shoved under the bed, so that we don't have to look at it. Because we don't want to look at it. Because we know it's real. For those of us that have been bullied, we don't want to cause trouble and get bullied again. For the bullies, they don't want to think that what they are doing is wrong. Subjects like this need to be put at the front, and teachers need to be educated on how to deal with their children so that I doesn't happen.