Do You Believe In God?

SkidMark01 · Jul 19th, 2003 7:08 PM

Att all. This question was in a long running poll which has gone to the new poll category. 64.8% of regulars and visitors to the site said YES. It got some very good replies and anyone wishing to add to the replies can do so here. Anyone wishing to vote can do so in the polls section. Thankyou. :) I will copy the last few comments...

SkidMark01 · Jul 19th, 2003 7:11 PM

DontBeAfraid
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(6/19/03 3:25 am)
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all i see is somebody who draws the completely wrong lines as to where and when to take the bible literally

Godsgifttomankind
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(6/23/03 4:11 pm)
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DBA you can see the truth all around you, The fig tree has not only bore leaves but is bearing fruit. All of the prophecies in the Bible point to this time. A time when what has been hidden from the beginning will be revealed. Does it not surprise you we are not in the darkages but have light in our houses. All the wonderous things in the world are shouting out that we are in a special time. But does any one listen? Science has been revealed for a reason to prove the existance of God. How long will we sit and admire the majesty that the hands of man have created and not realise that everything has a creator.

The Human can not have such depth just by mear chance and ignorance is futile from any angle, Religious or Secular.
Man was given a brain to reason and understand, we see what is happening in the name of religion and know it is wrong. The Truth will be revealed and all mankind will issue in The Most Great Peace. This war and strife is cased by the desires of men to control all aspects of their lifes and the lives of the people around them. History has shown us that even children can not be controlled but must be nurtured and guided. A child that is controlled will rebel and all will be lost. Bondage of any type does not work has the American Civil War not taught us anything? That war was started by a rebellion known as the Insurrection, In 1859 at Charleston, South Carolina. Every war has to do with eliminating oppression of any kind. Man knows clearly that they have no need or desire to be oppressed and yet certain individuals and religious groups think that people need to remain in the bondage of Ignorance. God's plan is contrary to this and until people stop their oppression and start opening their hearts and minds to the needs and rights of people as a whole we will be in conflict.People of every age group, race, nation, ability and stature, male or female have and require the same God given rights and freedoms.

Oppression of any kind must stop and it must stop now!!

It is our responsibility to be aware of our own actions as well as the actions of people around us that undermind the growth of any and all individuals in society. Even harsh words and a scathing tongue is as devastating as blows from the fists of a fighter.

God has truly blessed us with signs and wonders.

My eyes are open and I see what majesty has been endowed upon mankind. A majesty yet to be fully revealed when the eyes of all men shall be opened.

DontBeAfraid
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(6/24/03 2:08 am)
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I respect your view, but i disagree with it. I have no problem saying that we are smart by chance. Not everything needs a creator to come together. while i cant say i know where anything first came from, i can say that what we have now came from the things before it and mostly by chance.

SkidMark01
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(7/18/03 6:01 am)
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Smart by chance aye? We are forever having wars, are divided by religion and are ruled over by leaders who put the economy and financial profits before anything else. Smart aye? I have just read a post which said, "There is no God, only Allah". We'll the only difference between the two are the names. There is only one God, or Allah or whatever you want to call the source. I believe that the energy behind the big bang was God and we are here for a reason, not by chance. I think we are too complex to say we are here by chance. To create anything, you need an energy source to create it. The energy source is God.

mozartkugeln · Jul 19th, 2003 11:07 PM

ok...for those of you who are atheist...is it not worth a penny to believe in jesus christ and have eternal life than whatever belief you may have about life after death? What do you gain by believing in no god? live no more than 100 years and die? than what?... It doesnt hurt to believe in Jesus and have eternal life...its a win-win situation...If you had a choice between: humans came from some pathetic monkies or we were god's special creation...which would you prefer? its better to die believing in something than believing nothing...

evilwill88 · Jul 30th, 2003 6:10 AM

those of you that are christian....... where is your proof? How do you know there is an afterlife?

armageddononline · Jul 30th, 2003 2:36 PM

Mozart your logic is that playing the percentages, we're better off believing in God. This is an old argument witha couple of problems. Firstly, you can't make yourself believe something. You might be happier if you believed your car was the best car on Earth, but could you simply decide to believe that?

Secondly, if I was God I'd enjoy exclduing anyone claiming to believe in me just to go to heaven

evilwill88 · Jul 31st, 2003 6:57 AM

why would anyone be so devoid of common sense and logic as to be moronic enough to believe in god?

SkidMark01 · Jul 31st, 2003 7:42 AM

Why would one have to be devoid of common sense and logic if they choose to believe in God? I dont go to church, am not into the bible, but CHOOSE to believe in God as the source to everything. It makes sense to me. Err, Evil, if it isn't hurting you, than why do you need to mock people for having a belief?. Why do I have to be religious for believing in God?? The world is full of people with their own reasons for believing in something....or not believing in something. Surely we don't need to be mocked for our own beliefs.

armageddononline · Jul 31st, 2003 7:49 AM

I totally agree with what SKidmark just said. Lots of very intelligent people believe in God, like Stephen Hawking.

And since you've got so much more logic and common sense than me, explain where the universe came from. The matter than made up the Big Bang can't just have spontaneously come out of nowhere. Ergo, something must have created it.

evilwill88 · Jul 31st, 2003 8:02 AM

first of all i'm not trying to mock you believers.......... i don't have proof that god doesn't exist just like you don't have proof that he does exist.....

Your problem is that you (for some reason) crave a purpose and a sense of belonging on earth. I am willing to accept that we don't know why or how we are here.

I tend to go with the big bang theory...... but what makes you think that something had to create it? That is scientific thinking that there must be a cause. But we don't know how everything in the universe works. For all we know it has always been there and always will.

The is no sense in believing in god. There is no proof. If i told you that there is an army of spirits that are going to invade earth but we can't sense them in any fashion and we just have to believe they are there would you believe me?

It's the same concept. A claim is made with not one scrap of evidence to back it up and because you need a reason you choose to con yourself into believing.

We control our lives, not god! We don't know how the earth was created or the life on it. We may never find out or we may eventually but that is no excuse to resort to believing in irrational, illogical stories.

armageddononline · Jul 31st, 2003 8:13 AM

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I tend to go with the big bang theory...... but what makes you think that something had to create it? That is scientific thinking that there must be a cause. But we don't know how everything in the universe works. For all we know it has always been there and always will.[/quote] We do know enough about the universe to know that things don't just randomly come into and out of existance. If it's simply always existed, why? Why should space happen to be filled by universe? Are you suggesting that, just randomly, there always was a universe infinitely far back in time.

That's not evidence, it's a proof there must be a God. If you disagree explain what's wrong with the logic.

geoblue · Jul 31st, 2003 10:37 PM

I do believe in "God"... he is something that exists in people's minds and imaginations.... I personally don't believe that he exists outside of the realm of human thought... but who knows... if I'm going to "hell" for it then I'm looking forward to it... can't imagine how dull "heaven" would be...

geobluexx

matts concepts · Jul 31st, 2003 11:41 PM

Whats the point in debating whether there is a "god" or not? It has no relevance. The universe has been around for so long that humans have but a small place in the scheme of things. We are here for but a scrap of time. The human race has only been around in all its forms for a million or two years. Life on this planet has only been around for a few hundred million years, yet the universe has been around for quite a few thousand million years. This is so long a time that logic dictates that there must be other forms of life somewhere in the universe. This totally negates the theory of a "god" as nothing can live that long and even if it did wouldn't that god have done something before now? Or is "god" only a new idea bought about by people who have little enough faith in their own destinies to need something other than themselves to be guided by. Get over it and start living for yourselves!:rolleyes:

evilwill88 · Aug 1st, 2003 1:52 AM

my argument does not prove god exists....

Nothing proves that god exists! There is not one bit of proof.

I am merely stating that we don't know how everything happened but that is no reason to go and believe the first "story" you hear.

As i have said. It's for the weak minded that can't accept that we don't know!

armageddononline · Aug 1st, 2003 2:44 AM

Matts: No-one ever suggested God was a living breathing animal tha could die when it got too old.

Evil: Instead of just repeating the "God doesn't exist, nothing proves it, you're just a weak minded gullible idiot" mantra, could you explain what's wrong with the logic? If not, who's being weak-minded?

evilwill88 · Aug 1st, 2003 3:38 AM

i'll tell you what's wrong...... how does not knowing how our planet or the universe came into existence lead to an almighty powerful being that created it all?

Where is the logic in that? There is none!

God is just a story to comfort people. Something may have created the universe or it may have always existed. We don't know. But there is NO LOGIC in believing that some all powerful being just came along and made it all. That is a pure unproven theory.

armageddononline · Aug 1st, 2003 4:58 AM

I think you've missed the point.

It's basic science that every cause has an effect. Extrapolating back, there must have been a first cause or there could be no effects. But with no universe, what caused the first cause? The only possible answer is God.

When you've eliminated the impossible whatever's left must be the answer. Unless you can give an alternative explanation for the first cause?

evilwill88 · Aug 1st, 2003 6:23 AM

i think you are missing the point.

We don't know how it started. And we certainly don't know enough about the universe to presume how it was created.

God is not the only possible answer. The fact is we don't know the answer. God is a possibility but not an answer. I know it is basic science but it doesn't mean that's what happened.

Remember matter cannot be destroyed nor created. So how was the universe created. And if there was nothing before the universe then where did god come from? And how did he create matter? We can't be sure that our basic laws of physics aply throughout the entire universe.

DontBeAfraid · Aug 1st, 2003 6:45 AM

a god is not the only possible answer, its just the most accepted. I say that everything vame from nothing is just as good of an answer as god created it. neither can be explained in the least and at least you dont have to ask where nothing came from like you do with god.

You would get the same answers for both though

what created god - god always was
where did nothing come from - nothing was all there was.

how did god do it - its all powerful and beyond explanation
how did nothing do it - I dont know (paraphrased above)

why did god do it - it was gods will
why would it happen with nothing - nobody knows (paraphrased the god answer)

The god answer is not the only answer and its no more logical than the answer "for no reason at all"

There is also the wave theory out there. I dont know it all that well yet, but from what i can understand it makes some sense.

armageddononline · Aug 1st, 2003 6:45 AM

Look arund. Can you see matter just coming into being spontaneously? Can you see new universes starting all over the place, just because they feel like it? If not, what makes you think the laws of nature were any different in the past?

Re where God came from. If we accept that something must have existed before the matter and energy that make up the universe (hence, outside time), something that can create matter and energy, then I think God is a reasonable name for it.

DontBeAfraid · Aug 1st, 2003 7:09 AM

I say that all these universal laws came into being at the same time the universe came from nothing. See, with no laws govern this nothing there can be no stopping the universe from coming into existence, but when the nothing created these laws with the universe it can no longer happen, at least until the next time there is nothing.

armageddononline · Aug 1st, 2003 7:22 AM

With no laws of nature, nothing is possible. At tehre most fundamental, these laws allow things to happen rather than stopping them.

According to you theory, why is the universe the exact size it is, with the exact laws it has? Just be chance?

DontBeAfraid · Aug 1st, 2003 3:35 PM

With no laws of nature nothing is IMPOSSIBLE. No laws means no limits on what can happen, laws can only control things. Yes, its the size it is exclusively by chance in my guess.

Im not saying this is an iron-clad guess at the beginnings of the universe, just that it is just as good as the god guess. Neither means anything once the universe has began. Neither is provable once the universe has began. And neither can be proven wrong.

Without the laws of the universe nothing was stopping the universe from creating itself out of nothing. Laws are limiters not catalysts.

armageddononline · Aug 1st, 2003 4:44 PM

I really don't like the idea that a universe of random size just came into existance, that a certain number of particles happen to be created and no more for no reason.

Another flaw: Space and time are linked; time began with the universe. Without time, things can't happen so no chance event could have occured. You can't say, there was no universe, then an event happened that created one because there was no "before" the universe.

With God, you can avoid this problem because God is presumably not part of the universe and therefore unaffected by time.

DontBeAfraid · Aug 1st, 2003 7:36 PM

time is another thing that was created with the universe like you said, and the laws that time is the only way anything can happen came into existance with time, so time has no effect on the nothing. In the nothing anything is possible without rhyme or reason. Im not saying there was an event in the nothing, just that the nothing quit being nothing for no reason at all. Its just as logical as the god argument, and nothing is a lot easier to explain than an omnipotent being. You are trying to argue against the nothing with the laws of the universe, you cant do this because the laws of the universe are obviously not nothing they are something and were not a part of the nothing that for no reason at all defined them and the universe. About the particles, maybe they started being created with energy before the law of conservation showed up, again for no reason other than nothing was stopping it. eventually you get all the laws coming from nothing that put each other in check and lock out the nothing.

Hmm, I like my idea much more than I like this whole god thing.