Two Americas?

[derangel]

November's presidential elections made some people wonder if there aren't really two different versions of the U.S. I sometimes wonder myself. Keep in mind, I'm not pointing fingers or mentioning democrats or republicans or what have you. On the one hand you have people who are truly decent, who are altruistic, will gladly die for their friends, are compassionate and do their best to help the rest of the world, are open-minded, open to new experiences and new ways of thinking, accepting of other people's way of doing things, and morally mature. These are people who are concerned about making sure that everyone is treated equally and fairly; after all, we're all still human, regardless of race, gender, etc.

And on the other hand, you have the exact opposite. You have people who are not only shamefully ignorant, but proud of it! People who are vindictive and blood-thirsty, who wave the word "patriotism" around as a new way of saying "we're the best country on earth, and we'll shoot anybody who says otherwise." People who are not so much concerned about the well-being of others as they are about always being right. These are the people who would discriminate against those of other countries and even fellow Americans based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

So which is the real America? Well, they both are. America is representative of the human race as a whole in that it shows everything from the greatest good to the most profound evil. These are two very distinct philosophies and attitudes, and they run rampant in the States. I say, we separate all these people into two groups and let them start two new countries. That way, they can all have what they want and they don't have to piss off the other side.

Personally, I think I'll just move to an uncharted jungle island in the pacific where I can run naked and weave baskets out of hemp. Knowing my luck, though, my island will have a rich oil supply and the U.S. will decide that I'm ruling the island with an iron fist and have somehow managed to MacGuyver a nuclear weapon together out of bat guano and coconut shells, and they'll spend billions of dollars to send a bunch of soldiers to my island so that one of them can kick me off a ledge into the ocean to be eaten by a shark. And then they'll shoot the shark for good measure.

I've seen both sides of America up close and personal. There are some genuinely good and decent people in the country, but for every one of those there are ten others that cause me a great deal of embarassment. How do I tell the rest of the world that we're not all like these morons?

In the days following the events of 9/11, after it was revealed that those responsible were Midde-Eastern Islamic extremists, there was a nasty backlash aimed at anyone who was Islamic, Middle-Eastern, or was suspected of being either. Several Islamic friends at my school were harassed. Why? Are people in this country really that stupid? Do they think that every Islamic or Middle-Eastern person is a terrorist? Or was this some obscure form of revenge? Who knows? I don't claim to know the minds of idiots.

Which America would you rather live in?

PS- taking resident applications for the island of the naked basket-weavers

[MetalMilitia]

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware (not knowing).

A perfect example of what you just described is the Free Republic website - and the members there that seemingly have nothing to do but slam others who QUESTION things or think differently.

A lot of people are scared that way - or scared INTO thinking that way. Others only see the black and white - or just flat out won't listen to the other side. If hitting the ignorant was a legal option, my fists would be sore.

How do I tell the rest of the world that we're not all like these morons?

Keep on writing ;)

[Brewloc]

Some people just accepted the 'fact' that the world was flat. Others needed proof.



Nice post derangel! Daily I see people who have no clue and don't really want a clue from what I can tell. They have taken the blue pill, chosen the steak dinner have you.

[substand]

I think I'll just move to an uncharted jungle island in the pacific where I can run naked and weave baskets out of hemp. Knowing my luck, though, my island will have a rich oil supply and the U.S. will decide that I'm ruling the island with an iron fist and have somehow managed to MacGuyver a nuclear weapon together out of bat guano and coconut shells, and they'll spend billions of dollars to send a bunch of soldiers to my island so that one of them can kick me off a ledge into the ocean to be eaten by a shark. And then they'll shoot the shark for good measure.

I suppose we just made up all that bad stuff about Saddam. Its not like we invaded Canadia.

[derangel]

I suppose we just made up all that bad stuff about Saddam.

Well, yeah, we did.Sure, Saddamn was a bastard, but so is Castro, and we haven't bothered to knock over his happy little communist empire, have we? You pop on over to Iraq and play in the sand, and if you can dig up a nasty little nuclear warhead or a cute little doomsday virus then I'll concede that Bush didn't really make up that bit about the WMD just to scare people into action and give him an excuse to finish his daddy's war and secure the oil that America feels it rightfully owns. American Intelligence (such as it is) fucked up. We went to war for the most spurious of reasons and what do we have to show for it? A country with a brand new democratic government (which still hates us, by the way), the same country full of terrorists that will fight until at least one side is dead, the resentment of the surrounding Islamic countries, the irritation of our foreign allies, a pricetag on the war that tops the trillion mark, and (last but not least) one hell of a body count on our side. Securing our oil supply and introducing Iraq to the miracle of McDonald's isn't worth the price we paid and are still paying in the blood of our soldiers and the respect of our allies. Bush is a liar and a moron. He tossed the world a bad pretzel and most of America swallowed it whole. He has his own list of things to do, and the interests of the average American rank somewhat below the interests of the Bush family and their friends in the Fortune 500.

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and limps like a duck, then it's a goddamn duck.

[substand]

Well, yeah, we did.Sure, Saddamn was a bastard, but so is Castro, and we haven't bothered to knock over his happy little communist empire, have we?

That is, and has always been, about the stupidest excuse for being against the war I've ever seen. Do you expect me to beleive you would have been pro-war had we decided to take out Castro?

You, and many others, IMO, seem to equate one or two of the reasons we attacked Iraq with reasons we should attack any other regime. You all fail to realize the big picture. It was not simply our evidence of WMD (which was released by the CIA from an Oct 2002 estimate which concluded Iraq was developing WMD). It was not simply the fact that we felt Saddam was destabilizing the entire ME and thus our economy on the basis of oil. It was not simply Saddam's support of int'l terrorism. It was not simply that Saddam was an evil dictator. It was not simply that we had spent over a decade in time trying to get him to comply with the issues he agreed to to end the first gulf war. It was not the fact that no other regime met the domestic political conditions for waging war. It was not that Saddam, if he aquired such weapons, intended to use them on our allies (as his MO was the destruction of Israel, and probably us if he had the technology to send it that far). It was all these things. And while one regime here or there might have met one or two or three of the conditions, no one met them all. And you would be reluctant to persuade me that you would have chosen someone else to attack first.

American Intelligence (such as it is) fucked up

This is true, and we need to fix the situation.

what do we have to show for it? A country with a brand new democratic government (which still hates us, by the way), the same country full of terrorists that will fight until at least one side is dead, the resentment of the surrounding Islamic countries, the irritation of our foreign allies, a pricetag on the war that tops the trillion mark, and (last but not least) one hell of a body count on our side.

1) democracy is good.
2) terrorists would have happened anyway
3) we were already resented by the islamist terrorists
4) our allies will get over it (and i suspect in 20 yrs time we will be praised for our actions
5) i've yet to see a trillion and even if it matters, its worth it
6) the body count is damn low considering other wars and the terrain we are fighting in

[Bigsky770]

. . .Which I find strange with over 65+ views upon and yet little comment is the following:

http://forums.armageddononline.org/s...ead.php?t=4073

. . .Posted quite recently, I suspect many WISH it had never been disseminated. . .

Joe (Bigsky770)