Gnosticism in ameriica, im woried....

[IHateBabies]

Ok, if you do not know, along time ago in the early church, there was a heretical cult of people known as gnostics. While I am not an expert on them, they had these principals.

1. Matter is Evil...

2. Jesus is not the son of God... ( this varied among cults, gnosticism is not a unified ideology)

3. Jesus did not die on the cross, or resurection it was an illusion...

4. They get into crazy theology, the creator god being evil and a better spiritual God being the true god .... ( this is not the subject of my post though )

5. alot of things Dan Brown-ish...

6. Anti-Sex, Sex-Rituals, Anti-Birth ( they did not want to trap a spirit in a body )

7. Secret Knowledge
Now, more and more we see one or more of these beleifs growing in various protestant sects ( I am not catholic ) . I just thought I would mention this.. cause like, its kinda important. Now I think these beleifs are blasphemous unto God, cause they were deemed heretical, by the seven council of the early church...

[lazserus]

The hell are you talking about? Where did the term gnostic come from? It's quite religious, though it doesn't mean CHRISTIAN. If that's a crime, then strap some bombs to yourself and go blow up a junkyard or something. I mean, you can't be a fundie considering your username.

Matter is Evil...

Did you break? You're made of matter. Therefore, whatever footnotes for the Bible you read that states your comment...I can't even stomach the rest. This is beyond my tolerance. Well, if you believe your statement, then I guess you're going to Hell! Enjoy!

Jesus is not the son of God... ( this varied among cults, gnosticism is not a unified ideology)

Holy crap! There are still Jews around! Even a fictional book may help you.

Jesus did not die on the cross, or resurection it was an illusion...

You're right! David Blaine or even Houdini helped him FAKE the spear impalement. I'm not gonna argue religious historical facts, but I know many atheists who say Jesus existed and got stabbed. Hell, there are archeological factors to support that.

hey get into crazy theology, the creator god being evil and a better spiritual God being the true god .... ( this is not the subject of my post though )

I haven't a clue what you mean here. Do you mean God and his older brother Mick? Yea, God was a shit head and Mick kicked his ass and took over. Hence we have the New Testament. God was mean, but Mick is cool! He loves us!

alot of things Dan Brown-ish.

Yea, Dan came over to my place and peed all over the floor. The friggin lush!

I'm gonna ignore the last 2 because they're plain stupid. But...

Now, more and more we see one or more of these beleifs growing in various protestant sects ( I am not catholic ) . I just thought I would mention this.. cause like, its kinda important. Now I think these beleifs are blasphemous unto God, cause they were deemed heretical, by the seven council of the early church...

You keep denouncing Catholicism. You Baptist? I dunno what book you've been reading, but you may wanna consider reading a new one. Like, an encyclopedia or something. And what "early church" are you talking about? The early Catholic church? You may need to read a highschool history book. As twisted as they are, they seem to have more legit and rational information than you do. No harm meant, but you're acting goofy.

Have a cookie on me, you baby hater.

[Freakshow]

Whoa there lazserus, chill on the put downs!

While I agree that those belifes are wierd and most are indeed, stupid, I don't think out friend IHateBabies believes in them, or trying to denounce Catholicism.

So Mr. Babies, what exactly is the threat you're worried about? You really could explain yourself better.

[lazserus]

Whoa there lazserus, chill on the put downs!

Dunno what you're worried about. I made no insults. Just drastic rebuttals ina sarcastic manner. I never called names or anything of the sorts. So I don't see where "insult" is coming from. I also never accuse anyone of believing anything. I quoted and responded. That's all.

[Havoc Angel]

Wikipeadia has a nice entry about Gnosticism .

Here's the introduction:

Gnosticism is a descriptive term used to identify a common belief among various religious movements and groups that likely originated in prehistory and became most active in the first few centuries AD/CE. The key to understanding the core belief of these movements is provided by the term gnosis, a Greek word expressing a type of understanding/consciousness gained through personal experience. It is through this type of trascendental experience that followers of Gnostic belief systems ("Gnosticism") seek escape from ignorance and thus the mundane. Throughout history, followers of various incarnations of Gnosticism (particularly Christian persuasions) were persecuted by those who held the opposing belief that salvation came through faith in particular religious concepts or figures rather than personal knowledge of them. There is no evidence that followers of these earlier Gnostic belief systems ever characterized themselves with the word 'Gnostic.' The term has become widely used by modern scholars and others as a way to identify an emphasis placed on the salvific benefit of individual wisdom. Although many Gnostic movements identified with the teachings of Jesus Christ and were Christian by their own definition, there remains widespread variation in the particular religious orientations of many Gnostic groups. Especially notable for their extended and uninterrupted presence up until the modern era are the followers of the Persian Prophet Mani, the Manicheans; and the Pre-Christian Mandaeans who still survive in Iraq and Iran.

Particularly with the rise and fall of the Albigensian "Cathar" movement, European Gnostic thought became heavily influenced by the idea of a mythological struggle between competing forces of light and dark. This viewpoint would lead to the development of a strongly dualistic system in which there was a marked division between the higher celestial realms, and the material realms, the latter of which were thought to be under the governance of an ignorant entity known as the Demiurge. Influenced by more widespread branches of Christianity, the Demiurge was eventually conflated with many of the properties of Satan. One potential source of this newfound dualism is directly from the other Near-Eastern schools of Gnosticism, possibly via the influence of the Bogomils.

btw, i belief that the modern 'new-age' gnosticism is quite full of a lot of bull.

[liberdave]

5. alot of things Dan Brown-ish...

You mean "Dan Brown was a lot of things Gnostic." Gnosticism is quickly becoming a popular ideology for people who don't want to be Christians anymore but still feel the guilt. It is also in more places than you'd think. Gnosticism in pop culture.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

You're right! David Blaine or even Houdini helped him FAKE the spear impalement. I'm not gonna argue religious historical facts, but I know many atheists who say Jesus existed and got stabbed. Hell, there are archeological factors to support that.

I've never been 100% sure what exactly to believe regarding Jesus, historically speaking. Is there a good website that you can point me to, laz, regarding these archaeological factors? Thanks in advance...

[lazserus]

I've never been 100% sure what exactly to believe regarding Jesus, historically speaking. Is there a good website that you can point me to, laz, regarding these archaeological factors? Thanks in advance...

I haven't seen the sites in years, but I'll poke around for you. Most of the stuff I saw was based around the Roman Empire, which had a significant impact on what happened. There's a museum in Europe that claims to hold the spear head that killed Christ. None of any evidence I provide will support the "messiah" relation to Christ, but just support that he existed as a man. As I said, I'll look around. I don't have any links on hand.

I can only come up with http://www.roman-empire.net/ at the moment.

[DontBeAfraid]

It jsut accurd to me that "if there was a real jesus" maybe he had his stunt double up on the cross then he and his cult hid the bodiy. I mean they didnt have photographs back then and most of the people had not actually seen him before the murder.

[Marajadex]

IHateBabies, Try reading some of this first before making unfounded statements

Gnosticism is founded on knowledge and ALL the written works of christian theology. Those the christians choose to believe and Those the christians struck out of the bible. Until that decision was made, and then upheld by a Pagan emperor, all the texts were used and studied by religious scholars.

Why is it that so many people are afraid of the written word. To actively choose ignorance...

Thanks for the links LiberDave and Laz...

[me+three227]

What is truly wrong with some of those beliefs when you yourself do not know what GOD is and will be like....we only know of stories...and that's just the problem they are stories...he has not shown himself in any form...we see demons way more than anything holy...So let me ask you if there is proof behind the beliefs and theories from the gnostics then why bother with it...not saying I am one but I'd probably join them instead alot of other religions if I had to

[mickydoolittle]

see demons way more than anything holy...So let me ask you if there is proof behind the beliefs and theories from the gnostics then why bother with it
Now read below:

What is truly wrong with some of those beliefs when you yourself do not know what GOD is and will be like....we only know of stories...and that's just the problem they are stories...he has not shown himself in any form.

Contradict yourself much?

[IHateBabies]

Sorry, I havnt posted, I had stuff to do...

Ok, I do not support gnosticism, and Im sorry if this post seemed bigoted or uniformed.


Read the nag-hamadi library and see if you think that consitantley jives with the rest of christianity.
Why am I worried, bcause people do not know there own faith anymore and will beleive whatever sounds "nice". Now I know most of the people on this forum know there religion... but gnosticism is to christianity as Kabalah ( spelling? ) is to judism.


btw, there are as many different forms of gnosticism as there are M&M colors...

[Nova Scotia]

And i saw a Woman Drunken with the Blood of the Saints ,and with the martyrs of Jesus .

This woman who sets on the seven hills (Rome) has been killing some real saints through history .

I spent a Day a While ago studying some of the peoples this church use to kill and put to death . use to torture them , burn them .

Waldesians , quartodecimins , carthers . i can't remember them all . I do relize alot was probly Weirdos . But alot of these Heritics i beleave was the real saints . Some was Known by Their Neibours As the Good People or the Good Neibours . Some just refused things like Keeping Easter , quartodecimen stands for the 14thers .Or the Ones that kept Passover instead of Easter .

Read Foxes book of Martyrs . I do beleave again the Bible hits Right on That Woman is Drunken with the Blood of the Saints!

But their is some weirdos out there too . New Age? What a Bunch of Demonic Crap!

[PheonixRIsing]

These gnostics have certainly got my attention. I will not persecute them, but I will listen to their beliefs before reaching a conclusion.

[lazserus]

Apparently people can't read. Aside from lack of logic, the fundies can't read either.

Gnos·ti·cism n.

The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.

Happy? You guys gotta read before playing this game.

[PheonixRIsing]

I was listening.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

These gnostics have certainly got my attention. I will not persecute them, but I will listen to their beliefs before reaching a conclusion.

Gee, I wonder what your conclusion will be?

[Skynet12]

self-evident?!

[PheonixRIsing]

I don't know what my conclusion will be, I will have to find out for myself.

[B.NyeTheUruk-Hai]

I think that we ALL know what your conclusion will be, PR. You're not fooling anybody...