Abortion

***Ningishiddza*** · Apr 5th, 2007 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Soultaker

Gotta point there, the lack of self-control is no reason to support abortion since in the most of the countries there is information about contra-conceptive methods. Unfortunately, 1) many don't know about them because many don't know to read or speak Spanish because of poverty, because of living in indigenous communities (Mexico's case) or... else; and 2) If abortion is legalized in Distrito Federal (the Capital), at least there will be no more women death due to the conditions of abortions that are made illegally.

Gotta point there, the lack of self-control is no reason to support murder since in the most of the countries there is information about anger-management methods. Unfortunately, 1) many don't know about them because many don't know to read or speak Spanish because of poverty, because of living in indigenous communities (Mexico's case) or... else; and 2) If murder is legalized in Distrito Federal (the Capital), at least there will be no more injuries and accidental deaths of innocent bystanders due to the conditions of botched murders that are made illegally.

***Nasik*** · Apr 5th, 2007 9:29 PM

Well, I think a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy if she wishes. Don't we have enough people on the planet as it is, which is expected to double in 10 years or something (which we can't feed as it is). Shouldn't family planning, which is safe and legal, be available to women?

Looking at DBA's comments about when a soul enters the body - isn't there something in the Bible about a time when a baby is born and the cadre of souls is empty - so it is born without a soul. If there is something like that in there, then to me it suggests that a soul wouldn't enter the body until it was born? So, DBA's point is actually supported in the Bible.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 5th, 2007 10:58 PM

So, DBA's point is actually supported in the Bible.

That hypothetical was just to give my argument a broader appeal. The truth is that I just hate people who have more than one or two babies.

***jeffweeder*** · Apr 6th, 2007 2:54 AM

Well, I think a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy if she wishes. Don't we have enough people on the planet as it is,

just what exactly has freaked you out so much?

So you would be in favour of bringing in legislation that says your own sibling couldnt be born????

Its developing, that means its alive , no matter how old or developed it is,,,its always going to be what it is ,as soon as your sperm finds a egg the process starts. If you dont want it, that means you are going to have to kill it---because it is living.
As soon as an average couple find out they are with child, they see it at as their child , yet we are told it means nothing up to a certain point so you can kill it.

Thats bullderdash to me,,,,surely the point of fertalisation is were it all began to grow..

**Soultaker** · Apr 6th, 2007 3:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ningishiddza

Gotta point there, the lack of self-control is no reason to support murder since in the most of the countries there is information about anger-management methods. Unfortunately, 1) many don't know about them because many don't know to read or speak Spanish because of poverty, because of living in indigenous communities (Mexico's case) or... else; and 2) If murder is legalized in Distrito Federal (the Capital), at least there will be no more injuries and accidental deaths of innocent bystanders due to the conditions of botched murders that are made illegally.

Was my last opinion, inconsistent? If that's the point, then...

Gotta point there, the lack of self-control is no reason to support abortion since in the most of the countries there is information about contra-conceptive methods.

Unfortunately IN Mexico in one hand, many don't know about them due some they don't know how to read or speak Spanish either because of poverty or living in indigenous communities. On the other hand, if abortion is legalized in Distrito Federal (the Capital), at least there will be no more women death due to the conditions of abortions that are made illegally.

PS.: What a disturbing correction you made from my previous opinion, dude XD

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 6th, 2007 5:10 AM

Jeffweeder.... plants are alive... worms are alive.... animals are alive..... virus's are alive..... WE KILL THINGS ALL THE TIME. A FETUS IS NOT A BABY AND IT IS NOT A PERSON! One of its potential futures is that of a person but one is also the dumpster. A sperm and an egg seperate are useless, and combined are also useless. It takes much more than a sperm and an egg to create a person. It takes time and resources.

The way religion pushes people to have tons of kids makes me sick. Seriously I just want to go around kicking the stupid baby factories in the gut then in the teeth. Especially those who have more kids than they can support.

***Smoke*** · Apr 6th, 2007 11:38 AM

To put my opinion bluntly... abortions is free....!

no seriously... Here in canada you are allowed a maximum of 3 abortions before they start asking questions.. I am all for abortions btw because no one needs to ruin theyre life when theyre say 15... 16 years old and be in debt for EVER never finish school or get a good education because they cant afford the babysitter It would be bullshit for the child and the parents,...come on...

And i also think the fetus IS NOT ALIVE AND WOULDN'T even feel it or know it happend.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 6th, 2007 11:48 AM

no, technically the fetus is alive.... but it is certainly not a human.

TC · Apr 6th, 2007 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Smoke

To put my opinion bluntly... abortions is free....!

no seriously... Here in canada you are allowed a maximum of 3 abortions before they start asking questions.. I am all for abortions btw because no one needs to ruin theyre life when theyre say 15... 16 years old and be in debt for EVER never finish school or get a good education because they cant afford the babysitter It would be bullshit for the child and the parents,...come on...

And i also think the fetus IS NOT ALIVE AND WOULDN'T even feel it or know it happend.

Those same dumbass 16 year olds knew exactly what would happen when the cheese hit the pie.... to repeat that action is TOTAL LACK of self control... and to continue running back to remove the mistake is one of the absurdities of the 21st century....there is no excuse.

***Nasik*** · Apr 6th, 2007 5:02 PM

A woman's body is her own. If she want's to reproduce, great. If she finds she's in a situation where she doesn't, today she has safe, medically sound options. It is not for us to dictate to another human being whether or not they reproduce. If this is about religous morality or hypocritical belief in the sanctity of life - then I can provide ample examples where humans don't give a shit about other humans already "alive" on the planet. If we cannot even manage, as a collective society, to feed the people here, see they have housing, see they have medicine - the basic needs of life; if we as a society thinks its okay to pollute the planet, war with each other and kill indiscriminately other human beings for money or reglion, or whatever happens to be on the "To Do" List -- then where exactly is the moral high ground for anyone to stand by and say, abortion is wrong.

Jeff, you never actually answered my question about the soul cadre, and I wish you would have, because from a Biblical viewpoint, doesn't that impact your opinions at all?

**Freakshow** · Apr 6th, 2007 9:16 PM

I don't like the idea of abortions. It doesn't feel right to me. Killing off something that has so much potential seems wrong.

However, the law allows it so there is nothing I can do to stop women from doing it. If they asked my opinion, I would try and talk them out of it, find some other means of solving her problems with the child whatever it may be, but in the end it would be her decision and I have to respect it no matter how wrong I think it may be.

Of course, thats just for someone whose as well off as me. There are millions of deifferent scenarioes and each one is complicated. I really wish I had an answer to this kind of problem.

**PheonixRIsing** · Apr 7th, 2007 9:11 PM

Personally I think abortion is escapism, to choose an abortion is wrong in my opinion. Think about it, if the guy wears a condom, she aint gonna get pregnant. IF he isnt wearing one, she might get pregnant. Now, I have heard that some women say that got pregnant to a man that raped them, first the chances of that are low, secondly they can go to the doctor and get the day after pill, it willl prevent pregnancy 99% of the time. Worst scenario, if she doesnt want the child, then have the child sent up for adoption through C-section when the baby is old enough to survive outside the womb. If the woman cant afford that, then how is she supposed to afford an abortion? There are many better solutions than abortion, people should take responsibility for their actions, not sweep them under the rug.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 7th, 2007 9:31 PM

If the woman cant afford that, then how is she supposed to afford an abortion?

lol... what a ridiculous question.

Yes, peopel whould use birth control and condoms and the morning after pill.... and finally abortion should the first steps fail or should they fail to take the first steps. Who made this poll anyways? The option are loaded.... option one should be yes, the fetus is not a person.

**Cartesiantheater** · Apr 7th, 2007 9:45 PM

Originally Posted by PheonixRIsing

Personally I think abortion is escapism, to choose an abortion is wrong in my opinion. Think about it, if the guy wears a condom, she aint gonna get pregnant. IF he isnt wearing one, she might get pregnant. Now, I have heard that some women say that got pregnant to a man that raped them, first the chances of that are low, secondly they can go to the doctor and get the day after pill, it willl prevent pregnancy 99% of the time. Worst scenario, if she doesnt want the child, then have the child sent up for adoption through C-section when the baby is old enough to survive outside the womb. If the woman cant afford that, then how is she supposed to afford an abortion? There are many better solutions than abortion, people should take responsibility for their actions, not sweep them under the rug.

Wait, are you saying women should take responsibility for "getting" themselves raped?

***Sammy56*** · Apr 7th, 2007 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by PheonixRIsing

hink about it, if the guy wears a condom, she aint gonna get pregnant.

Condom's are NOT 100% effective. No birth control is. My brother was the result of a birth control failure.

secondly they can go to the doctor and get the day after pill,

Some women are to scared to report the rape. They fear that their attacker will find them and hurt them again.

***jeffweeder*** · Apr 7th, 2007 11:38 PM

Jeffweeder.... plants are alive... worms are alive.... animals are alive..... virus's are alive..... WE KILL THINGS ALL THE TIME. A FETUS IS NOT A BABY AND IT IS NOT A PERSON!

Makes no difference to my thinking.

A new life has begun the moment it begins to develop at fertilisation.
I bet if you were stranded on a desert island, with little hope of survival, and you came across some corn or tomato seedlings growing, you would treat them as what they were going to be...and nurture them...giving them the respect they deserve--so you could feed your face..

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 7th, 2007 11:46 PM

you would treat them as what they were going to be...and nurture them...giving them the respect they deserve--so you could feed your face..

Are you suggesting I should eat a baby?

I would treat them with care in the hopes that they could someday turn into something with which to feed my face.... If I treated them as though they had already fulfilled one of their many potentias, that of becoming a vegitable, l I would soon find myself hungry.

A new life has begun the moment it begins to develop at fertilisation.

Why draw your ridiculous arbitrary line at that point? Why not start at the very LIVING sperm or the egg? They are just as alive as any other ball of flesh.

***jeffweeder*** · Apr 8th, 2007 12:07 AM

Why draw your ridiculous arbitrary line at that point? Why not start at the very LIVING sperm or the egg? They are just as alive as any other ball of flesh.
__________________

Nothing ridiculous about it-this is the point of fertilisation right...

Are you suggesting I should eat a baby?

DBA really.... you would see that corn in its infintile process, but you would treat it as though it was real corn that would bear nothing but fruit for you-in time.
YOUD BE STUPID if you aborted those plants and you know it.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 8th, 2007 1:41 AM

but you would treat it as though it was real corn

The way I treat real corn is I eat it.... Treating it as though it had already fulfilled one of its many potentials would be stupid. So you see that this analogy is going nowhere.

Another place where you analogy fails is that the human race is not a stranded person.... no, their is an abundance of people and our survival does not depend on making sure that every potential person becomes one.

***jeffweeder*** · Apr 8th, 2007 4:55 AM

I was just thinking of you DBA, but what does corn pose any potential but to be eaten? GE3E IM SOI PISSED I CANNOT TOTPE ,CATCH YOU TOM O0RROW---YOUR WERONG ANYWAY AND IM GOINGH TO PROOVE ITT

***Ningishiddza*** · Apr 8th, 2007 5:30 AM

Originally Posted by Soultaker

Was my last opinion, inconsistent? If that's the point, then...

Gotta point there, the lack of self-control is no reason to support abortion since in the most of the countries there is information about contra-conceptive methods.

PS.: What a disturbing correction you made from my previous opinion, dude XD

It should be disturbing.

Murder isn't a crime, it's merely a post-birth abortion. If the thought of caring for your elderly parents or grandparents, or your sick spouse or child is just too much, you can abort them. Why should you to suffer life-long trauma due to caring for or looking after someone else?

If the employees become a burden on a corporation, the corporate officers should just abort the employees.

Why should there be a national health care plan when hospitals can just abort their patients?

The blind, the deaf, the retarded and crippled, we can abort them, too.

When you get tired of your boyfriend or husband, just abort them and move on, so you aren't burdened. Of course, maybe they're thinking the same thing about you.

You know after 12 weeks the brain is wired and up and running. That's a sentient human being that you are murdering. And it is murder, since the definition of murder is the taking of a life for personal profit, personal gain or personal benefit.

They got it backwards. If those women's lives are so destitute and pathetic that they can't care for another, then they ought to do the honorable thing and off themselves.

You know what would be a great hell? All those women spending eternity being chased around by their knife-wielding unborn children. That would be an awesome hell.

***MaximumPain*** · Apr 10th, 2007 6:14 AM

I used to very pro choice until I saw the birth of my son, just a little tiny baby coming out of the womb so helpless and I knew it was my job to protect him. At that moment I decided that abortion was wrong. No one asks the child if they want to live, no one asked them if it was ok for mom and dad to have sex for pleasure and if they conceived if it would be all right to end the little life they had created. Sorry folks but abortion is murder when you end a pregnancy you are ending a HUMAN life. Call it an embryo, a fetus or whatever else you want to justify the decision it’s still a human being and the action took killed it. There are times when this is justified if the mother is not going to survive the birth then sorry kid, in the case of rape and incest it may be the best option to abort that is a decision that must be left to the mother.

Now should it be illegal? There needs to be laws to prevent its use as a contraceptive sorry folks but if you have sex for pleasure you better take precautions because any life you create is on you. On the other hand the choice to kill your children before birth is up to you just don’t justify the killing by claming that its not a human yet.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 10th, 2007 7:07 AM

Ning you are making ridiculous comparisons.

You know after 12 weeks the brain is wired and up and running. That's a sentient human being that you are murdering.

Its a living entity, but its hardly thinking or sentient.

don’t justify the killing by claming that its not a human yet.

Its a potential human... but not yet a human.

***MaximumPain*** · Apr 10th, 2007 7:11 AM

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

Its a potential human... but not yet a human.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Apr 10th, 2007 8:07 AM

I define a human as a sentient being... Not just a sentient being but one which is capable of realizing its own existance and not just the existance of its surroundings.