Anime child porn?

[Beatnik Bob]

I am very sure of it. Check again.

And you conclude this without even reading about the research because you couldn't even find it.

1 out of 4 males is not a pedophile, sorry. That's absolute ludicrous.

And you base this on what?

On the fact that the goal of anime child porn and real child porn is identical: to give pedophiles and mentally disturbed people an orgasm.

Actually since the reason they are watched for is exactly the same. It is very relevant to this debate.

It isn't relevant to this debate because being attracted to women and wanting to have sex with women is NOT an inherently mentally disturbed trait.
While mentally disturbed people do often find fertile women attractive, that has nothing to do with this debate, because their mental deficiency is NOT that they find women attractive, but that they have chemical imbalances.

Whereas, the very act of finding a child or baby to be sexually arousing IS an example of a chemical imbalance.

Comprehende?

By implying that something is unnatural, it must be man made.

No. Chemical imbalances and mental "handicaps" that make people attracted to children are not healthy or natural.
Health being the human's natural state. The natural state of a human isn't supposed to be diseased.

You are aware that pornographic nature consists of a lot more than just videos. There are even statues from cavemen that are pornographic in nature.

There's nothing wrong with porn. Because finding women attractive is healthy.
Finding babies attractive is not...because it is a mental disorder.


And if cavemen truly did have pictures of child porn...nobody cares. Because there's evidence that cavemen in Spain/France also reverted to violent cannibalism...If it's unhealthy and a caveman does it....it is still unhealthy...

Then why did you watch them?

What?

Shota is another term for anime child porn.

I see.

The point was however that people that watch porn. Do not have the sudden urge to rape girls. Or seek prostitutes.

Right...And I'm basically agreeing with you in that people who watch child porn don't desire to "rape" children either.

They DO, however, desire to have SEX with children. And anime child porn is an advertisement for those urges.

How so? How does watching porn brainwash people into going out to visit hookers?

Why do you debate while on crack?
In America...having sex with women does not automatically mean finding a prostitute to have sex with...I realize we are dealing with cultural issues here, but NO, NOBODY NOBODY is talking about visiting hookers.

If you want to argue with YOURSELF, feel free to, because that has nothing to do with anything I have said or my position.
In fact many of the points you have brought up that you take issue with are YOUR points...

Again, how so?

Porn does not lead to people seeking out prostitutes etc.

Debate yourself then. Because I don't even think porn makes you want to have sex with prostitutes. I said porn "makes you want to have SEX."

Every woman is not a prostitute lycanox.

And it definitely does not lead to such severe lack of empathy that it leads to rape.

So why would anime child porn do.

Is there no position that you comprehend? Nobody said child porn makes men want to rape. It makes them want to have sex with children...because eventually masturbation doesn't cut it.

Sex /= rape and women /= hookers.

[Quote]

And if the man had a normal sexual preference, he would likely have kidnapped and abused some adult girls.

NO! That is NOT normal.

How exactly not?

"NO!" As in you are disturbed.

Repeating NO. with an insult does not answer the question.

LOL

NO as in kidnapping and abuse is NOT natural. Those ARE NOT normal sexual preferences. Why do I even need to tell you that?

Neither are people that constantly watch movies like saw.
But that is not a reason to ban it.

People who watch movies like saw don't want to go out and cut people up. People who watch child porn to "get off" would LIKE to go out and have sex with children.

I sincerely doubt that anyone that has a severe disdain for violence hates watching saw.

That is not what I am suggesting.

It was practically the reason why you brought it up.

I know why I brought it up, and no that is not the reason.

Showing again. A severe misunderstanding of other cultures.

Correction: Showing again a severe disinterest in the act of cutting your penis in half.

Your claim was however that those people would suffer psychological damage because they would feel inferior to the surrounding people.

That was NOT my claim, because the surrounding people did it too.

My claim was that they would suffer psychological damage from having their penis cut in half. Don't misrepresent my position please.

The same reason why I think cannibalism is bad. They may be the nicest people on the planet, and hey, that's great, but guys...you eat people you kill in tribal battles sometimes...

YOU show a severe lack of logic/reading skills. Cutting your penis in half isn't reasonable.
There is no argument to support penis severing. It is physiologically abusive. ENOUGH.

You are the one that started talking about it. Not me.

You support it. And because I recognize the inherent humor in many things, I think that is incredibly funny (it's a might bit disturbing too though).

To prove that anime child porn leads to child rape.
You have to prove that normal porn leads to rape.

Otherwise your whole argument falls apart.

No it doesn't, because you have INVENTED an entire argument FOR me. That is NOT my argument.

NUMBER OF TIMES BEATNIK SAID RAPE IN THE CONTEXT LOLCANOX IS REFERRING: 0 (term mentioned 3 times in regard to the "suppression of urges" section only, has no role in Beatnik's actual position).
NUMBER OF TIMES LOLCANOX SAID RAPE IN PREVIOUS POSTS: 10

As there is a huge moral difference between raping people and watching a movie about sex.

These are the places I mention rape.
Check these out:

I did not say rape scenes in child porn would lead to raping children.

The only person who has said anything about rape has been YOU.

I'm NOT talking about rape. So respond to my previous post again.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up rape. But you don't understand a damned word of English.

Not relevant to the debate. As the point was that there are situations where finding a girlfriend is not an option.

That is neither here nor there...

And normal porn is an advertisement to have unprotected sex with complete strangers.

That's not illegal. And wanting to have sex with women is not an example of mental deficiency.

[lycanox]

1 out of 4 males is not a pedophile, sorry. That's absolute ludicrous.

Yet it is what science is suggesting.

On the fact that the goal of anime child porn and real child porn is identical: to give pedophiles and mentally disturbed people an orgasm.

And giving people an orgasm is also the purpose of normal porn.

It isn't relevant to this debate because being attracted to women and wanting to have sex with women is NOT an inherently mentally disturbed trait.
While mentally disturbed people do often find fertile women attractive, that has nothing to do with this debate, because their mental deficiency is NOT that they find women attractive, but that they have chemical imbalances.

It is very relevant to the debate.

If porn has no proved negative consequences for the community. Than shota hasn't as well. As the two are aside from the age difference, exactly the same.

Whereas, the very act of finding a child or baby to be sexually arousing IS an example of a chemical imbalance.
Comprehende?

So is liking extremely violent and gory movies.

No. Chemical imbalances and mental "handicaps" that make people attracted to children are not healthy or natural.
Health being the human's natural state. The natural state of a human isn't supposed to be diseased.

Apparently it is, otherwise it wouldn't happen in nature.

There's nothing wrong with porn. Because finding women attractive is healthy.
Finding babies attractive is not...because it is a mental disorder.

The question is however. Do they hurt the community.

As this whole issue is not about punishing people for having a mental disorder. But about watching something has a negative effect on the community.

And if cavemen truly did have pictures of child porn...nobody cares. Because there's evidence that cavemen in Spain/France also reverted to violent cannibalism...If it's unhealthy and a caveman does it....it is still unhealthy...

The point was, that porn is a lot older than television.

What?

Violent movies.

Right...And I'm basically agreeing with you in that people who watch child porn don't desire to "rape" children either.

They DO, however, desire to have SEX with children. And anime child porn is an advertisement for those urges.

And again, porn and violent media are an advertisement for urges aswell.

Why do you debate while on crack?
In America...having sex with women does not automatically mean finding a prostitute to have sex with...I realize we are dealing with cultural issues here, but NO, NOBODY NOBODY is talking about visiting hookers.

You do realize that there are lots of people for who finding a steady relation is not an option.



Debate yourself then. Because I don't even think porn makes you want to have sex with prostitutes. I said porn "makes you want to have SEX."


Then your whole argument that watching porn causes an increased sex drive is mood.

Is there no position that you comprehend? Nobody said child porn makes men want to rape. It makes them want to have sex with children...because eventually masturbation doesn't cut it.

Sex /= rape and women /= hookers.

If they don't want to go out to rape children. Your whole argument is mood as it would mean that there is no extra danger for the community.

LOL

NO as in kidnapping and abuse is NOT natural. Those ARE NOT normal sexual preferences. Why do I even need to tell you that?

Ever read a book about mating rituals in other animals?

People who watch movies like saw don't want to go out and cut people up. People who watch child porn to "get off" would LIKE to go out and have sex with children.

People who watch saw. Fantasy to do the same to people they hate.
Yet dont do it in real life as that would mean breaking a huge moral barrier.

Just like people that watch anime child porn. Would like to have sex with children. (Whish they would like even before watching the shota. Otherwise they would not watched it.) However do not go out to rape children as that would mean breaking a huge moral barrier.

Things only get dangerous if that moral barrier is compromised already by another empathic mental problem. Which would make them a danger to society even before they watched the shota. In that case Shota might actually have a positive effect on them as they would be more likely to rape children without other safe ways to release their urges.

Correction: Showing again a severe disinterest in the act of cutting your penis in half.

The same reason why I think cannibalism is bad. They may be the nicest people on the planet, and hey, that's great, but guys...you eat people you kill in tribal battles sometimes...

YOU show a severe lack of logic/reading skills. Cutting your penis in half isn't reasonable.
There is no argument to support penis severing. It is physiologically abusive. ENOUGH.

Again read some history about the cultures that did practice it.

You support it. And because I recognize the inherent humor in many things, I think that is incredibly funny (it's a might bit disturbing too though).

Merely because I respect other cultures. And because you twisted the argument in that manner to begin with.

No it doesn't, because you have INVENTED an entire argument FOR me. That is NOT my argument.

Again, read back. You are the one that brought it up in both debates.

NUMBER OF TIMES BEATNIK SAID RAPE IN THE CONTEXT LOLCANOX IS REFERRING: 0 (term mentioned 3 times in regard to the "suppression of urges" section only, has no role in Beatnik's actual position).
NUMBER OF TIMES LOLCANOX SAID RAPE IN PREVIOUS POSTS: 10


These are the places I mention rape.
Check these out:









That is neither here nor there...

Your point is? That the issue of rape is not relevant to the debate?
I am pretty sure it is.

That's not illegal. And wanting to have sex with women is not an example of mental deficiency.

But like I pointed out before. Bullying people with a mental deficiency is not reason enough to ban something. There at least needs to be an danger to the population that wouldn't exist without the media.

[Beatnik Bob]

Yet it is what science is suggesting.

I believe a mistranslation must have occurred.

And giving people an orgasm is also the purpose of normal porn.

Didn't say it wasn't. But having an orgasm to a woman is NORMAL. Having an orgasm to a BABY is NOT.

And subsequently wanting to have sex with a baby is NOT normal. It IS normal to want to have sex with a woman (and as ethical standards are changing, I believe it is normal for a homosexual to want to have sex with a member of his same sex--as that is not due to a brain deficiency, but only key pseudo-hormones).

If porn has no proved negative consequences for the community. Than shota hasn't as well. As the two are aside from the age difference, exactly the same.

Here's the thing....normal porn makes you want to have sex with women. Child porn makes you want to have sex with children.

Which one is illegal? (not to mention unethical) Option 2 is: wanting to have sex with children.

So is liking extremely violent and gory movies.

Not really. Please show me a statistic that people who watch violent movies wan't to go out and do what they saw on film.

Apparently it is, otherwise it wouldn't happen in nature.

Ahh, so that is the standpoint you are taking.

That is reasonable enough to suggest, however, nature does many "obscene" things that humans have set up a vaues system and labeled wrong.

For one thing, having sex with babies is ILLEGAL. You can argue till you're blue in the face whether or not having sex with babies SHOULD be legal or no, but the fact remains...it is not, and for some very good reasons.

And yes, in nature mothers will eat the placenta and bite the umbilical cord off, yes, in nature animals revert to cannibalism, yes in nature animals inbreed, yes in nature there is NO such thing as murder or rape. If a he-bear has sex with a she-bear against her will...doesn't matter.


So no, we do NOT judge our actions based on the conduct of nature. This is OUR nature, and in our nature MURDER is unnatural, RAPE is unnatural, CHILD SEX is unnatural, CANNIBALISM is unnatural.

Which is exactly WHAT sets us apart from nature. No bear will feel remorse for killing its brother bear, but humans however (if they are sane and healthy humans) WILL feel guilt.


So the nature argument...I can see where you're coming from, but no...

The question is however. Do they hurt the community.

As this whole issue is not about punishing people for having a mental disorder. But about watching something has a negative effect on the community.

Decent suggestion.

Your arguments on this matter are getting much better.

I would say, it hurts the community because there's a certain amount of distrust you have to give someone who has mental problems--i.e. you wouldn't let a pedophile babysit your kid.

Not that pedophiles should be doomed because of their disabilities. But that you shouldn't really be HELPING them express those problems.

If a person has a depression disorder, do you give them drugs that deepen their depression, or do you give them drugs that alleviate it? (from a WESTERN medicine point of view I mean, as I personally don't advocate the use of drugs for depression...they just need to get out side ).

The point was, that porn is a lot older than television.

Ok, that is true. But that porn wasn't a media, for most of human existence, if you wanted porn you made it yourself. (AND not to mention most of it depicted women having sex, not children--today having children is unethical, standards change).

IE, if a pedophile WANTS to look at children having sex, he should just draw them HIMSELF. He can express himself however he want's to, that's fine, bu there shouldn't be a COMMERCIAL STANDARD (like anime child porn) that ADVERTISES it.
Somewhat healthy expression is one thing, ADVERTISING IT (by allowing it in media--movies) is another thing.


But the fact is, people who watch child porn are just having it spoon fed to them. And why should that kind of spoon feeding be allowed? Why feed a person with problems poison?

If they want to express their urges...again...just turn to personal art for themselves. Or seek therapy.

And again, porn and violent media are an advertisement for urges aswell.

Like I said, I watched Inglorious Bastards (great film I might add) and I did not leave the theater wanting to hurt anyone at all.
Because I, like many others, do not watch violent movies to "get off" or even if people DO watch it to get off, they would NEVER wan't to kill people in real life.

I'll admit there are a FEW people that may watch violent movies and actually want to do what they see on the big screen, but that ratio pales in comparison with the percentage of people who watch child because they actually WOULD like to have sex with kids.

You do realize that there are lots of people for who finding a steady relation is not an option.

I know. I'm not sure that that is the center of the subject...I'm saying child pornography is unethical advertising that is actually acted on.

Then your whole argument that watching porn causes an increased sex drive is mood.

It doesn't increase your sex DRIVE per se, it makes you want to eventually replace masturbation with the real thing.

Most virgins are sexually frustrated, am I right? So by that logic....masturbation obviously DOES NOT placate. The same goes for pedophiles. Why would a pedophile want to be sexually frustrated?? Eventually he's going to WANT to have sex with an actual child...and that is against the law. (...unlike having sex with women is legal)

If they don't want to go out to rape children. Your whole argument is mood as it would mean that there is no extra danger for the community.

I take it you don't consider having sex with children to be dangerous? WTF?

Would someone besides me please explain to lycanox why having sex with a 10 year old IS bad for the community...

Ever read a book about mating rituals in other animals?

Ya, spiders will often eat the male spider when they're done mating...

I wouldn't base conduct on nature...by any means.

Natural for them maybe, but some things aren't natural for us.

People who watch saw. Fantasy to do the same to people they hate.
Yet dont do it in real life as that would mean breaking a huge moral barrier.

I've never seen Saw, because it has no merit other than blatant morbidity, but people who DO watch saw watch it because they wan't to be SCARED. Violent and horror movies are NOT popular because people have violent urges, they're popular BECAUSE people wan't to freak themselves out and leave the theater scared.

You don't think the Ring was popular because most people have a hidden fantasy of giving people a movie that will make them die in 7 days, do you?

No, of course not.

Just like people that watch anime child porn. Would like to have sex with children. (Whish they would like even before watching the shota. Otherwise they would not watched it.) However do not go out to rape children as that would mean breaking a huge moral barrier.

I didn't say they would go out to rape children...

Again read some history about the cultures that did practice it.

I HAVE. And its history has NOT made chopping my dick in half sound ANY more appealing. Sorry.

Because cutting your penis into two pieces is physiologically unnatural, and detrimental. Why do you think penis cutting is healthy? Or if you realize it ISNT healthy, why do you support ruining your health and performance?

Merely because I respect other cultures. And because you twisted the argument in that manner to begin with.

I respect cultures based on merit and harmony. I like MANY aboriginal shamanic tribes that value reaching enlightenment through the "dream-time" state, and I value the culture and conduct of numerous other tribes that are aware of harmony and their humanity in nature, like native americans, amazonian tribes, the majority of african tribes.

So this has nothing to do with respect of culture. This has to do with the fact that cutting your penis in half is grotesque--and I'm not saying that with bias, I'm saying that as a fellow human who recognizes that such behavior is counter productive.

Again, read back. You are the one that brought it up in both debates.

Nooo...this discussion has nothing to do with rape...maybe YOUR position deals with ME supporting rape, but that is obviously a FALSE representation of my stance.


Your point is? That the issue of rape is not relevant to the debate?
I am pretty sure it is. [/Quote]
Not...really...
You were debating me on the grounds that anime child porn does not cause rape, while I had NEVER said it DID cause rape, thus it IS irrelevant. Because sex and rape are not the same thing.

Unless you wan't to debate yourself, which you are free to do.

But like I pointed out before. Bullying people with a mental deficiency is not reason enough to ban something. There at least needs to be an danger to the population that wouldn't exist without the media.

Agreed. Nobody wants to "bully" pedophiles.
I'm merely saying that they shouldn't really be supported either...which child porn supports their viewpoint...
And having sex with children is illegal...and unethical..

[lycanox]

I believe a mistranslation must have occurred.

How so.

Didn't say it wasn't. But having an orgasm to a woman is NORMAL. Having an orgasm to a BABY is NOT.

And subsequently wanting to have sex with a baby is NOT normal. It IS normal to want to have sex with a woman (and as ethical standards are changing, I believe it is normal for a homosexual to want to have sex with a member of his same sex--as that is not due to a brain deficiency, but only key pseudo-hormones).


Here's the thing....normal porn makes you want to have sex with women. Child porn makes you want to have sex with children.

Which one is illegal? (not to mention unethical) Option 2 is: wanting to have sex with children.

First of all. It is also against our culture to kill people. Yet we see that again.

Second. I dont care what is normal or not.
Aslong it does not hurt people. There is no sound reason to ban something.

Not really. Please show me a statistic that people who watch violent movies wan't to go out and do what they saw on film.

They aren't. Just like people that watch shota aren't going out to do on their film.

Ahh, so that is the standpoint you are taking.

That is reasonable enough to suggest, however, nature does many "obscene" things that humans have set up a vaues system and labeled wrong.

Either something is natural. Or it is man made.

So either explain how we turn people into pedophiles. Or admit that it is just a natural urge.

For one thing, having sex with babies is ILLEGAL. You can argue till you're blue in the face whether or not having sex with babies SHOULD be legal or no, but the fact remains...it is not, and for some very good reasons.

So is killing people. Yet we watch movies about that.

And yes, in nature mothers will eat the placenta and bite the umbilical cord off, yes, in nature animals revert to cannibalism, yes in nature animals inbreed, yes in nature there is NO such thing as murder or rape. If a he-bear has sex with a she-bear against her will...doesn't matter.

It does matter if you want to understand the origin of a problem.

So no, we do NOT judge our actions based on the conduct of nature. This is OUR nature, and in our nature MURDER is unnatural, RAPE is unnatural, CHILD SEX is unnatural, CANNIBALISM is unnatural.

Our nature is natures nature.
We are just as much an animal as the animals outside.

Which is exactly WHAT sets us apart from nature. No bear will feel remorse for killing its brother bear, but humans however (if they are sane and healthy humans) WILL feel guilt.

Anyone that has spend a moderate time with animals know that animals do feel guilt. And anyone that reads the bizarre segment of the news knows that carnivores are able to emphasize with prey animals.

Decent suggestion.

Your arguments on this matter are getting much better.

I would say, it hurts the community because there's a certain amount of distrust you have to give someone who has mental problems--i.e. you wouldn't let a pedophile babysit your kid.

That is entire unrelated problem. As people wouldn't know whether or not a person has shota. And I doubt that non shota watching pedophiles are more trusted.

Not that pedophiles should be doomed because of their disabilities. But that you shouldn't really be HELPING them express those problems.

Why not. The more things are bottled up the more problematic it becomes.

Besides. Without shota they will go straight to real child porn.

If a person has a depression disorder, do you give them drugs that deepen their depression, or do you give them drugs that alleviate it? (from a WESTERN medicine point of view I mean, as I personally don't advocate the use of drugs for depression...they just need to get out side ).

If a person has a traumatic experience. Do you learn them to push it to the back of their mind as much as possible. Or do you teach them to get it out of their system.

Ok, that is true. But that porn wasn't a media, for most of human existence, if you wanted porn you made it yourself. (AND not to mention most of it depicted women having sex, not children--today having children is unethical, standards change).

IE, if a pedophile WANTS to look at children having sex, he should just draw them HIMSELF. He can express himself however he want's to, that's fine, bu there shouldn't be a COMMERCIAL STANDARD (like anime child porn) that ADVERTISES it.
Somewhat healthy expression is one thing, ADVERTISING IT (by allowing it in media--movies) is another thing.

Not everyone can draw anime or manga.

But the fact is, people who watch child porn are just having it spoon fed to them. And why should that kind of spoon feeding be allowed? Why feed a person with problems poison?


If they want to express their urges...again...just turn to personal art for themselves. Or seek therapy.

Therapy should always be considered. Regardless of the shota debate.

Like I said, I watched Inglorious Bastards (great film I might add) and I did not leave the theater wanting to hurt anyone at all.
Because I, like many others, do not watch violent movies to "get off" or even if people DO watch it to get off, they would NEVER wan't to kill people in real life.

I'll admit there are a FEW people that may watch violent movies and actually want to do what they see on the big screen, but that ratio pales in comparison with the percentage of people who watch child because they actually WOULD like to have sex with kids.


I know. I'm not sure that that is the center of the subject...I'm saying child pornography is unethical advertising that is actually acted on.



It doesn't increase your sex DRIVE per se, it makes you want to eventually replace masturbation with the real thing.

perhaps for the moment while masturbating.

But in day to day life. There is no increase in sex drive.

Most virgins are sexually frustrated, am I right? So by that logic....masturbation obviously DOES NOT placate. The same goes for pedophiles. Why would a pedophile want to be sexually frustrated?? Eventually he's going to WANT to have sex with an actual child...and that is against the law. (...unlike having sex with women is legal)

But this is not a process increased by shota.

Besides. You are forgetting the huge barrier between fantasizing about something. And actually doing it.

I take it you don't consider having sex with children to be dangerous? WTF?

Would someone besides me please explain to lycanox why having sex with a 10 year old IS bad for the community...

We are discussing whether or not shota has negative side effects for the community. Not whether or not child rape has.

Ya, spiders will often eat the male spider when they're done mating...

I wouldn't base conduct on nature...by any means.

Natural for them maybe, but some things aren't natural for us.

Again, it is important to understand the origins of a problem to deal with it.
And a natural occurring disorder requires a whole different approach than a man made disorder.

I've never seen Saw, because it has no merit other than blatant morbidity, but people who DO watch saw watch it because they wan't to be SCARED. Violent and horror movies are NOT popular because people have violent urges, they're popular BECAUSE people wan't to freak themselves out and leave the theater scared.


You don't think the Ring was popular because most people have a hidden fantasy of giving people a movie that will make them die in 7 days, do you?

No, of course not.

And how about action movies.

I didn't say they would go out to rape children...

I HAVE. And its history has NOT made chopping my dick in half sound ANY more appealing. Sorry.

Because cutting your penis into two pieces is physiologically unnatural, and detrimental. Why do you think penis cutting is healthy? Or if you realize it ISNT healthy, why do you support ruining your health and performance?


I respect cultures based on merit and harmony. I like MANY aboriginal shamanic tribes that value reaching enlightenment through the "dream-time" state, and I value the culture and conduct of numerous other tribes that are aware of harmony and their humanity in nature, like native americans, amazonian tribes, the majority of african tribes.

So this has nothing to do with respect of culture. This has to do with the fact that cutting your penis in half is grotesque--and I'm not saying that with bias, I'm saying that as a fellow human who recognizes that such behavior is counter productive.

Read the history books again. In china the difference in class was so huge, that each parent sended out a child to be castrated. So that they would have a better life and take care of the family.

Not...really...
You were debating me on the grounds that anime child porn does not cause rape, while I had NEVER said it DID cause rape, thus it IS irrelevant. Because sex and rape are not the same thing.

And if shota does not cause rape. There is no extra danger to the community.
Thus not enough reason for a ban.

Agreed. Nobody wants to "bully" pedophiles.
I'm merely saying that they shouldn't really be supported either...which child porn supports their viewpoint...
And having sex with children is illegal...and unethical..

If shota keeps them away from real child porn. It would at least be one customer less to fund that practice.

And if it allows them to release their urges in a safe way. Thats even better.

[proffett]

Why not. The more things are bottled up the more problematic it becomes.

Besides. Without shota they will go straight to real child porn.

How do you know this?

What I'm saying is, if this weren't available for people to foster their unhealthy fantasies, perhaps the fantasies wouldn't exist to begin with... And without the implication of normalcy that these types of film convey, perhaps the thoughts and actions of the perpetrators of heinous crimes like pedophilia would not be committed as frequently.. It isn't so much a discharge for them as fuel. IMO.

[Assassin X]

I've been trying to ignore this topic just because its a touchy subject but I'll talk some more.

Its been proven, or at least supposed doctors say bottling things up just makes it worse and you will at some point lose control. Such as people who hold back anger. Eventually they explode in a massive fit of rage and can hurt someone. If Peds don't get their fix I think they will do something worse. Example if they are into child porn then they might slowly start looking at real children more and more sexually. Eventually leading to the point of wanting to kidnap one and do things to them. Heck theres been many stories like this over the years.


Humans have needs for what they like... drugs, alcohol, sex...etc. While some can pull themselves away from it, others can't. And some would argue the need never really leaves you. Pedophiles have been around since the beginning of time. Just like other things have. Its just more known today because of things like technology. I don't think theres a cure or any of this either. Thats the problem with humans. Were a disease. Only cure is for, as a species, us to be exterminated.

[Beatnik Bob]

How so.

You tell me.

First of all. It is also against our culture to kill people. Yet we see that again.

EXACTLY.

Second. I dont care what is normal or not.
Aslong it does not hurt people. There is no sound reason to ban something.

They hurt themselves. Is that not just as bad?

And again....it encourages having sex with children.

They aren't. Just like people that watch shota aren't going out to do on their film.

The difference is that violent movies aren't watched to gratify violent urges.
Child porn IS watched to gratify their want to see children have sex.

Either something is natural. Or it is man made.

Or it is made by nature, but it is UNNATURAL.

So either explain how we turn people into pedophiles. Or admit that it is just a natural urge.

WE don't turn people into pedophiles. People become pedophiles for a variety of reasons. ONE: a chemical IMBALANCE. TWO: vitamin D deficiency in COMBINATION with chemical imbalance. THREE: genetic DISTORTION.

In ENGLISH the word nature has several meanings. You are referring to one meaning, but if you understood context you would notice I'm talking about a different form.

The idea I'm expressing when I use the term "nature" is "a healthy balanced state 'natural,' lack of distortion--ideal existence."

You're still learning English, so I won't give you a hard time about it, but for future reference, the term "nature" doesn't strictly refer to the nature talked about in scientific publications. It's one of those words you have to see in context to know what it means.

So is killing people. Yet we watch movies about that.

And we don't watch it to relieve urges, we watch to to observe something we deem of interest. There is a big difference.

It does matter if you want to understand the origin of a problem.

The origin is not in question. The origin is just simply NOT important. Because having a mental deficiency is not a "natural" state--in the context I'm using this english word in, that means in a state of health, or harmony.

In the same way, in English, you can call having cancer "unnatural" you can call having a mental problem that makes you attracted to children "unnatural."

You're learning English, so it's fine.

Our nature is natures nature.
We are just as much an animal as the animals outside.

No argument from me there, because that argument has nothing to do with what's at hand.
But I will add, that no, we are not like animals outside. Our mind is too complex compared to most animals.
And it's not because of size--killer whale's have brains 5 times the size of ours, and yet aren't that intelligent.

And humans, unlike ANY other animal, can create a standard of health. Where other animals will eat each other, humans can make a law that doesn't allow it.
Cannibalism isn't natural, but it occurs in nature. Get it?

Anyone that has spend a moderate time with animals know that animals do feel guilt. And anyone that reads the bizarre segment of the news knows that carnivores are able to emphasize with prey animals.

They can feel guilt on an emotional amino-acid only level, yes.

They can feel guilt at the tip of the ice berg, but it will never mean anything to them like it does to us. Our version of sensitivity seems to transcend amino acids, though peptides are certainly apart of it.

(Keep in mind that genetically, a chimpanzee brain has more in common with a chicken than it does with us, while we are animals, we are a much different type of animal, as evidenced by us having this discussion alone. Animals are incapable of morality issues).

That is entire unrelated problem. As people wouldn't know whether or not a person has shota. And I doubt that non shota watching pedophiles are more trusted.

Non-pedophiles are more trusted, yes. Especially with children.

Why not. The more things are bottled up the more problematic it becomes.

Besides. Without shota they will go straight to real child porn.

I really like Proff's response to this.

If a person has a traumatic experience. Do you learn them to push it to the back of their mind as much as possible. Or do you teach them to get it out of their system.

Liking child porn isn't really do to a traumatic experience. So there IS no getting it out of the system through acting on their deficiency.
Just like if you have any OTHER disorder, like a depression disorder perhaps, acting on that disorder WILL NOT relieve its affects.

As far as self expression goes, that is fine. But child pornography as an INDUSTRY should be limited. They can draw pictures of children, that falls under the 1st amendment, but the moment it becomes a huge sharing industry where you feed off of the unnaturalness of it--it isn't really healthy.

Not everyone can draw anime or manga.

Then I guess they can't draw anime or manga...

Therapy should always be considered. Regardless of the shota debate.

Therapy is a HEALTHY alternative to watching child porn, yes.

But in day to day life. There is no increase in sex drive.

Yeah...

But sexual frustration isn't relieved by masturbation.

Besides. You are forgetting the huge barrier between fantasizing about something. And actually doing it.

They may fantasize about raping, let's say, but we both know they WON'T rape.
But they WILL wan't to have sex. This is as true as the keyboard I'm typing on.

We are discussing whether or not shota has negative side effects for the community. Not whether or not child rape has.

Thank you...This isn't about rape. Thank you for the acknowledgment.

Again, it is important to understand the origins of a problem to deal with it.
And a natural occurring disorder requires a whole different approach than a man made disorder.

The way you're using "nature" a man-made disorder is just as natural.

And how about action movies.

What about them?
People who watch action movies don't watch it because they wan't to kill people afterward.

Action movies are like child pornography in no way.

Read the history books again. In china the difference in class was so huge, that each parent sended out a child to be castrated. So that they would have a better life and take care of the family.

Maybe you didn't know what the word PHYSIOLOGICALLY means.

It means that it is detrimental to your physical health status, and destructive to your "natural" inclination in your body towards self sufficiency and autonomy.

Thereby, castration is hurting their physiological health: FACT.

I am VERY familiar with ancient China and their respected eunuch class. But this has nothing to do with it. Castration ruins their health whether they think it did or not.

There is even sufficient evidence to suggest that men made into eunuchs after a certain age are much more aggressive than other men, as the imbalance in testosterone makes them incredibly violent and disturbed.

And if shota does not cause rape. There is no extra danger to the community.
Thus not enough reason for a ban.

AGAIN...
You don't consider having sex with children to be dangerous to a community? Are you disturbed?

If shota keeps them away from real child porn. It would at least be one customer less to fund that practice.

No, anime child porn isn't as bad as real child porn in that one uses actual children and the other merely degrades the image of children.

But both represent a societal outlook that suggests that pedophilia is ACCEPTABLE or NORMAL.

It is not. If it WERE normal, then it wouldn't be caused by a chemical IMBALANCE or distorted gene expressions.

And if it allows them to release their urges in a safe way. Thats even better.

They should find another way, because like I said, acting on a disorder DOES NOT alleviate or mitigate that disorder.

Its been proven, or at least supposed doctors say bottling things up just makes it worse and you will at some point lose control. Such as people who hold back anger. Eventually they explode in a massive fit of rage and can hurt someone. If Peds don't get their fix I think they will do something worse. Example if they are into child porn then they might slowly start looking at real children more and more sexually. Eventually leading to the point of wanting to kidnap one and do things to them. Heck theres been many stories like this over the years.


Humans have needs for what they like... drugs, alcohol, sex...etc. While some can pull themselves away from it, others can't. And some would argue the need never really leaves you. Pedophiles have been around since the beginning of time. Just like other things have. Its just more known today because of things like technology. I don't think theres a cure or any of this either. Thats the problem with humans. Were a disease. Only cure is for, as a species, us to be exterminated.

There's a difference between an addiction and a DISORDER. With a disorder, acting on the factors/causes of the disorder will NOT engender real relief from the problem.

Child porn is a disorder, not an addiction.

[lycanox]

How do you know this?

Its common knowledge that it is bad to crop emotions.

Just think of traumatic experiences that get worse if people put it away instead of let it out. Or anger that is allowed to build up over the years until the last straw. Etc.

What I'm saying is, if this weren't available for people to foster their unhealthy fantasies, perhaps the fantasies wouldn't exist to begin with... And without the implication of normalcy that these types of film convey, perhaps the thoughts and actions of the perpetrators of heinous crimes like pedophilia would not be committed as frequently.. It isn't so much a discharge for them as fuel. IMO.

People dont stumble on a picture or something accidentally and decide to become a pedo. It is something people are born with.

You can just as much become pedosexual from watching shota as you can become a homosexual from watching brokeback mountain.

You tell me.

Dont twist around it.

EXACTLY.

Then why the double standard for pedosexuality.

They hurt themselves. Is that not just as bad?

That is their own choice.

And again....it encourages having sex with children.

The difference is that violent movies aren't watched to gratify violent urges.

Child porn IS watched to gratify their want to see children have sex.

Or it is made by nature, but it is UNNATURAL.

Actually people watch violent stuff for their violence. THere isnt much of a differend reason to watch movies like die hard. Or boxing.

WE don't turn people into pedophiles. People become pedophiles for a variety of reasons. ONE: a chemical IMBALANCE. TWO: vitamin D deficiency in COMBINATION with chemical imbalance. THREE: genetic DISTORTION.

And none of these are coused by watched shota.

And we don't watch it to relieve urges, we watch to to observe something we deem of interest. There is a big difference.

I dont really see the difference.
Afterall, where do you think that intrest comes from.

No argument from me there, because that argument has nothing to do with what's at hand.
But I will add, that no, we are not like animals outside. Our mind is too complex compared to most animals.
And it's not because of size--killer whale's have brains 5 times the size of ours, and yet aren't that intelligent.

And humans, unlike ANY other animal, can create a standard of health. Where other animals will eat each other, humans can make a law that doesn't allow it.
Cannibalism isn't natural, but it occurs in nature. Get it?

Nope. We are just a bunch of animals pretending to be civilised.
If we really were differend. All that stuff wouldnt happen in the first place.

They can feel guilt on an emotional amino-acid only level, yes.

They can feel guilt at the tip of the ice berg, but it will never mean anything to them like it does to us. Our version of sensitivity seems to transcend amino acids, though peptides are certainly apart of it.

(Keep in mind that genetically, a chimpanzee brain has more in common with a chicken than it does with us, while we are animals, we are a much different type of animal, as evidenced by us having this discussion alone. Animals are incapable of morality issues).

And you base this on what exactly.

Afterall, there are plenty of examples of animals making moral decissions that go against instinct.

I really like Proff's response to this.

Liking child porn isn't really do to a traumatic experience. So there IS no getting it out of the system through acting on their deficiency.
Just like if you have any OTHER disorder, like a depression disorder perhaps, acting on that disorder WILL NOT relieve its affects.

The same thing however applies also to other emotions.

As far as self expression goes, that is fine. But child pornography as an INDUSTRY should be limited. They can draw pictures of children, that falls under the 1st amendment, but the moment it becomes a huge sharing industry where you feed off of the unnaturalness of it--it isn't really healthy.

You are forgetting that the point of the first ammendment is to allow people to express their opinion and art.

Therapy is a HEALTHY alternative to watching child porn, yes.


Yeah...

But sexual frustration isn't relieved by masturbation.

Actually it is the sole purpose of masturbation.

They may fantasize about raping, let's say, but we both know they WON'T rape.
But they WILL wan't to have sex. This is as true as the keyboard I'm typing on.

But since the only way they can have sex is through rape. And they wont rape. They arent just a danger.

Thank you...This isn't about rape. Thank you for the acknowledgment.

You missed the point. I said that we are discussing wheter or not there was a danger to the comunity due to to shota. Not wheter or not there is a danger to the community coming form rape. Whish is undebateble. As it has been comfirmed numerous times.

What about them?
People who watch action movies don't watch it because they wan't to kill people afterward.

Action movies are like child pornography in no way.

Actually people that watch action movies often fantasieze about doing the stuff in the movies themselves. Or atleast symphatise with the character that is doing to killing.

Maybe you didn't know what the word PHYSIOLOGICALLY means.

It means that it is detrimental to your physical health status, and destructive to your "natural" inclination in your body towards self sufficiency and autonomy.

Thereby, castration is hurting their physiological health: FACT.

I am VERY familiar with ancient China and their respected eunuch class. But this has nothing to do with it. Castration ruins their health whether they think it did or not.

You brought it however up in the debate to prove a mental decease.
So wheter or not its bad for their psychological health is completely unrelevant to the debate.

There is even sufficient evidence to suggest that men made into eunuchs after a certain age are much more aggressive than other men, as the imbalance in testosterone makes them incredibly violent and disturbed.

Whish is a hormonal side effect. And thus also unrelevant to the debate.

AGAIN...
You don't consider having sex with children to be dangerous to a community? Are you disturbed?

I do concider child rape a danger to community.
I just dont see how shota causes it.

No, anime child porn isn't as bad as real child porn in that one uses actual children and the other merely degrades the image of children.

But both represent a societal outlook that suggests that pedophilia is ACCEPTABLE or NORMAL.

Violent movies also suggest that killing people is acceptable and normal.

It is not. If it WERE normal, then it wouldn't be caused by a chemical IMBALANCE or distorted gene expressions.

So is having red hair. yet we concider red hair normal.

They should find another way, because like I said, acting on a disorder DOES NOT alleviate or mitigate that disorder.


There's a difference between an addiction and a DISORDER. With a disorder, acting on the factors/causes of the disorder will NOT engender real relief from the problem.

Child porn is a disorder, not an addiction.

However in the case of shota. They have the choice of seeking real child porn. Or shota.
If we ban shota. They are going to fall back on real child porn. Adding extra income for those. And promoting them to expand their bussines.
And thus endangering more children.