Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Black Death vs Bubonic Plague

  1. #1
    Local Pedant Contributor lazserus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    The Mothership
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,032

    Black Death vs Bubonic Plague

    Disable These Ads!
    Between 1347 and 1350 a pandemic swept across Europe killing nearly two thirds of the continent's population. In merely three years Europe's population was nearly decimated. The pandemic's title is well known and bookmarks a page in history that shows humans how fragile we are, and how easily we can be wiped out. The title is none other than the Black Death. In just three years Europe's population was almost destroyed, but most history teachers fail to mention that Asia (China in particular) suffered the same fate and same loss of life. In under a decade a large majority of half the world was dead.

    Bubonic plague is the modern name given to the Black Death, yet research newly enlightened shows that the two were not the same. Bubonic plague is not only some rare pestilence that challenged humanity in the early middle ages, but still quite active today. Bubonic plague is spread through parasites, particularly fleas. In history we see a common trend, which is the presence of rats. A lot of cases of bubonic plague outbreaks can start with the discovery of large quantities of dead rats. When associating Black Death with bubonic plague in history there are mostly probabilities and possibilities, but nothing concrete. We have to deduce in order to find the answers.

    The outbreak of the Black Death in Europe points to one battle, the siege of Caffa. The Italians and Genovese and Mongols fought over control of a valuable trading city called Caffa. In 1346 the Mongols wanted to take control of Caffa and laid siege on the city. During such a siege the Mongols would catapult diseased cadavers into Caffa. Though the actual siege was unsuccessful for the Mongols, the Genovese survivors fled the city west spreading the sickness. Records imply that Genovese traders ported at Messina and were either dead or infected. When thinking bubonic historians would naturally assume there were rats on the docking vessels. The rats and their fleas caused the spread of the illness. The puzzle has ambiguous edges, thus more than a single piece fits.

    There are several reasons Black Death and bubonic plague don't fit together. The weakest link, yet strongest evidence lies within the theory of transmission by rat. There is no question that rats spread bubonic plague. That fact alone supports the theory that Black Death was not bubonic. Rats, the primary carriers of bubonic plague, could not reasonably spread a disease like Black Death.

    Black Death, though majority of recorded symptoms match bubonic symptoms, was spread too quickly to be bubonic. Aside from rats not straying far from their nests, the Black Death was spread across the continent via roads and riverways, geographical barriers that would restrict rodents.

    Granted much more information on this subject is on hand, I'd like for you all to mull it over and discuss. No point in starting and closing a thread in the same stroke.

  2. #2
    C9 gunner Contributor Smoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,427
    thats pretty cool history of the 2 but that is so creepy catapulting the diseased bodies into the towns, can you imagine oh god... it gives me chills.

    Its just like primitive biological warfare.

    awsome post laz, I really mean it ha ha

    but how did the disease come about? and the mongols must have been dealing with it for a while to know of its effects.

    Where did it originate does any one know?
    Last edited by Smoke; Dec 4th, 2006 at 10:40 PM.
    ♠DISCONNECT AND SELF DESTRUCT ONE BULLET AT A TIME, WHATS YOUR RUSH NOW EVERY ONE WILL HAVE HIS DAY TO DIE .!♠

  3. #3
    Hollow Man Contributor jinxz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The other side of the Scary Door...
    Age
    33
    Posts
    296
    A few things I've heard about the bubonic plague...

    It can spread to the lungs where it becomes pneumonic plague, which is transmittable directly from person to person. Sort of like the new bird flu; we can only catch it from birds right now, but it's possible it can mutate and start spreading solely in the human population.

    Also, bubonic plague germs attack the white blood cells and lymph nodes, just like HIV. And amazingly, just like HIV, it entered the white blood cells through the same protein gate in the cell membranes. Some people have mutated genes that make the proteins that control this gate. If they have one of these mutant genes, they're resistant to both bubonic plague and HIV. If they have two of these mutant genes, their protein gates are impermeable to the viruses, rendering them IMMUNE to bubonic plague and HIV. A significant minority of the European and Asian descended population on Earth today have one or more of these mutant genes (because their ancestors survived and had offspring - Thank You, Natural Selection!). This is one more reason the AIDS epidemic has been especially harsh in Africa (the other major one being the lack of prophylactics) - their ancestors did not get selected on the basis of immunity or resistance to bubonic plague.
    I shall now make myself a sandwich. God help the neighbors if they have no cheese. JTHM

  4. #4
    C9 gunner Contributor Smoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,427
    thisstuff is so interenting, jinxz i dont want to sound like an ass or anything but do you have any proof of these gateways things that make certain people resistant to hiv and the plague and new age bird flu ect.

    im quite interested in this.
    ♠DISCONNECT AND SELF DESTRUCT ONE BULLET AT A TIME, WHATS YOUR RUSH NOW EVERY ONE WILL HAVE HIS DAY TO DIE .!♠

  5. #5
    Hollow Man Contributor jinxz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The other side of the Scary Door...
    Age
    33
    Posts
    296
    Yeah, I should have thought somebody would want some proof of this. It's something I learned years ago from Nova so I didn't look anything up about it before I posted.

    Here's a really brief piece backing up what I said. It seems I should ammend my earlier comment - the Asian population with this resistance/immunity are a very small minority.
    I shall now make myself a sandwich. God help the neighbors if they have no cheese. JTHM

  6. #6
    Local Pedant Contributor lazserus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    The Mothership
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,032
    Quote Originally Posted by jinxz
    Yeah, I should have thought somebody would want some proof of this. It's something I learned years ago from Nova so I didn't look anything up about it before I posted.

    Here's a really brief piece backing up what I said. It seems I should ammend my earlier comment - the Asian population with this resistance/immunity are a very small minority.
    I saw the information and it was pretty silly. You and I are both historians, J-dawg, but I don't think I can follow this. Though, some of the questions can be answered.

    Yersinia Pestis is the name of the bacterium that is associated with bubonic plague. However, bubonic is a version strictly associated with spreading via rodents, pneumonic plague when spread by inhaling bacteria, and finally septicemic plague when transferred through physical contact. Mortality rates decrease in respects to modes of transmission, believe it or not. Therefore, bubonic (rodent spread) plague has a much higher mortality rate than any other classification as far as history is concerned.

    Though I won't refute jinxz's data, I will refute associated period of infection. All recent data points away from bubonic plague during the Black Death pandemic. During that period rats were common-place and thus lazy historians laid blame on them.

    Bubonic plague symptoms, though nearly identical with half a dozen other diseases, could not have reasonably spread as quickly and vastly being carried by rodents. Black Death was spread through roads and riverways where rodents could not traverse and humans frequently did. Modern research and studies in rodents sucseptible to contracting bubonic plague tell us it would be impossible for them to spread the pestilence over a large area, especially in so short of time.

    As far was where Black Death originated is open to conjecture. All fingers point to Asia as the haven, but no one knows the actual source or start.

  7. #7
    Innovator of Violence Contributor evilwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,057
    From what I remember of the Black Death from my Year 9 history days, this all sounds right.

    I remember coming across information about the Black Death being broken into several strains, one of them airborne as jinxz mentioned.

    When you do think about it, it does some quite unlikely that rats could spread such a disease all over Europe so quickly.

    It's been years since I've done any research on this but my little theory was that the rats were the initial spreaders of the plague and once it got into the water supply (and possibly the air itself) it could very easily infect the population of a city. Then it would be easy enough for people themselves to spread the plague around.

    I know very little about the nature of the disease itself, but would it be possible for someone to solely be a carrier? I ask this because I figure once someone contracted the plague they weren't about to be running off anywhere as it was commonly known how infectious the plague was and the symptomns themselves would have prevented long distance travel.
    ~Evil Will~
    I'm not evil, just morally challenged.

  8. #8
    Pwning Bitches !!
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hero Land !!
    Posts
    4,065
    So the people that survived the Black Death had some kind of immunity ..... does that mean that disease can wipe out a huge proportion of humanity but there will always be a few people who will survive and re-populate the earth ??

  9. #9
    Iam puppy, hear me yap. Global Moderator lycanox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Nutzi Netherlands.
    Age
    29
    Posts
    12,064
    Yep, Offcource there has to be enough people alive to prevent inbreeding.
    Last edited by lycanox; Dec 5th, 2006 at 1:16 PM.
    http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/139/8/a/logo_by_lycanox.png

  10. #10
    Lucky survivor Seasoned Member The Space Pope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    R'lyeh
    Age
    23
    Posts
    278
    http://infectioncontrol.ucsfmedicalc...uidelines.html

    Scroll down to Treatment/Outcome. If untreated, pneumonic plague is highly fatal. It also spreads easily person to person. It may or may not have been the Black Death, but I think that it would be capable of that kind of spread rate and mass destruction. Also septicemic is not transferred by touch. It is an infection of the blood itself, as opposed to the lymph nodes like with bubonic. Septicemic plague will only be spread by contact with blood, I'm fairly sure.
    Last edited by The Space Pope; Dec 6th, 2006 at 8:57 PM. Reason: italics error

  11. #11
    Manjushri Contributor donniedarko's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    642
    With regard to the CCR5-delta32 mutation, here is a link to the news article published in Nature (can't link the actual journal article/many of you would find the actual article a bit difficult to read).

    http://www.nature.com/news/2005/0503...050307-15.html

    This is another paper refuting the claim that the Black Death was the leading cause of the increase in CCR5-delta32 frequency.

    http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/.../full/99/8/497

    Suffice it to say however, that CCR5 is indeed the portal to the cell for HIV and there a numerous documented cases of people with mutations in one or both of the CCR5 alleles having increased resistance (to near immunity) to HIV.
    .:if knowledge is power, know this is tyranny:.

  12. #12
    just around the corner uki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    local
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,069
    Quote Originally Posted by lazserus
    but most history teachers fail to mention..
    no kidding.


    The puzzle has ambiguous edges, thus more than a single piece fits.
    probably because it was a combination of many circumstances and haphazards.

    Aside from rats not straying far from their nests, the Black Death was spread across the continent via roads and riverways, geographical barriers that would restrict rodents.
    a list of likely scenarios; infected people and bodies that were unaware of having the disease, perhaps delayed symptoms in resilient people with a heartier than average immune system. rats had nests near river docks and in merchant wharehouses; unknowing caravans shipped via land and sea contained whole nests of rats who were living in imports and exports... crates, boxes, within ship walls, etc. with the rivers being a primary mode of transportaion, the disease would spread very swiftly. the process would continue in every town for the most part, with the infection arriving unknowingly, contaminating the local rat population, and so forth... of course there are many other possibilities... but for the rats, this is most likely what has given popularity to the spread of any disease that can be transmitted by rodents during that specific time period in society.
    Last edited by uki; Dec 5th, 2006 at 5:30 PM.
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

  13. #13
    just around the corner uki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    local
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke
    thisstuff is so interenting, jinxz i dont want to sound like an ass or anything but do you have any proof of these gateways things that make certain people resistant to hiv and the plague and new age bird flu ect.
    when a human body is subjectated to certain frequencies of light and energy, the genetic material fires up previously junk DNA. people who seem to have certain abilities beyond the average human is do to having more DNA strands operating than the average double helix strand as in most people. DNA is like an operating code for the mind and body. when it does not have the proper protiens and molecules combined with the right frequencies of information(light), it will remain dormant and an undesired genetic disorder will surface, kind of like a computer virus. the more DNA strands(up to 12) that are turned on, the more properly functioning human one's body will be... hence the ability to resist bubonic plague and HIV.
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

  14. #14
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    64th latitude north....Where global warming is a plus
    Posts
    7,555
    Yup, it was the fleas on the rats that were the primary, the rat just got the bad rep.




    ( I just happen to like rats....)
    Last edited by TC; Dec 5th, 2006 at 5:45 PM.

  15. #15
    star gazer..... Contributor Protostar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ny
    Posts
    3,224
    My question is if it takes months for your body to produce the antibodies to fight hiv viral infection, <which is how you prove that you have it> how can anyone be resistant or near resistant to it?
    Hell, you wouldn't know you have the virus until these antibodies appear. So,
    how can there be proof that someone is resistant or not? You either have it or you
    don't.

    I have often wondered if there is a possibility that the medevil warming period
    was some how responsible for the spread of both of these illnesses.
    as our earth warmed up it released all kinds of things into the atmosphere and could have some how helped it spread or mutate.
    It sounds far-fetched sure but even species today are mutating in strange ways...

    Oddly enough, the journal of nature just published a report that the earth, in the last 3 months, had a mean temperature higher than any consecutive 3 months
    for the last 500 yrs. http://www.nature.com/news/2006/0612.../061204-2.html

    Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

  16. #16
    Manjushri Contributor donniedarko's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    642
    Quote Originally Posted by uki
    when a human body is subjectated to certain frequencies of light and energy, the genetic material fires up previously junk DNA. people who seem to have certain abilities beyond the average human is do to having more DNA strands operating than the average double helix strand as in most people. DNA is like an operating code for the mind and body. when it does not have the proper protiens and molecules combined with the right frequencies of information(light), it will remain dormant and an undesired genetic disorder will surface, kind of like a computer virus. the more DNA strands(up to 12) that are turned on, the more properly functioning human one's body will be... hence the ability to resist bubonic plague and HIV.
    LMFAO!!! I can't believe I missed this. Uki, where do you get this stuff?! You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
    .:if knowledge is power, know this is tyranny:.

  17. #17
    One left in the chamber Global Moderator TC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    64th latitude north....Where global warming is a plus
    Posts
    7,555
    Quote Originally Posted by uki
    when a human body is subjectated to certain frequencies of light and energy, the genetic material fires up previously junk DNA. people who seem to have certain abilities beyond the average human is do to having more DNA strands operating than the average double helix strand as in most people. DNA is like an operating code for the mind and body. when it does not have the proper protiens and molecules combined with the right frequencies of information(light), it will remain dormant and an undesired genetic disorder will surface, kind of like a computer virus. the more DNA strands(up to 12) that are turned on, the more properly functioning human one's body will be... hence the ability to resist bubonic plague and HIV.

    Friends, is junk DNA giving you that heavy feeling? Weeell have we got a deal for you.

    DR. Uki's patented DNA energizer! simply place this wonder of science "Light Frequency modulator" up the ol poop chute, and turn that useless DNA into super human ability! Why wait, our operators are standing by.

    *Not sold in stores or shops / vaseline and batteries not included.

  18. #18
    just around the corner uki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    local
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,069
    Quote Originally Posted by shortround
    *Not sold in stores or shops / vaseline and batteries not included.
    perhaps you are a fan of keeping it on the down low yo?!?!? your sense of humour clearly shows the parallels of being someone who saw the den of the pen.
    Last edited by uki; Dec 7th, 2006 at 4:11 PM.
    if i offend you, you are part of the fucking problem.

  19. #19
    Kneel before Zod! Contributor B.NyeTheUruk-Hai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,969
    Quote Originally Posted by donniedarko
    LMFAO!!! I can't believe I missed this. Uki, where do you get this stuff?! You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
    I'm with DD here. Where the hell do you get this stuff from, uki?

    Quote Originally Posted by uki
    when a human body is subjectated to certain frequencies of light and energy
    Which frequencies of light? What types of energy?

    Quote Originally Posted by uki
    the genetic material fires up previously junk DNA
    Obviously, this has been observed. Can you link to an experiment whereby such a process was observed?

    Quote Originally Posted by uki
    DNA is like an operating code for the mind and body.
    Wrong. DNA is simply a blueprint that tells the cell how to make proteins. That's IT...

    Quote Originally Posted by uki
    hence the ability to resist bubonic plague and HIV.
    Obviously, an experiment was done to confirm this claim, otherwise you wouldn't post it as fact now would you, uki? Please link to this experiment...

    Quote Originally Posted by shortround
    Friends, is junk DNA giving you that heavy feeling? Weeell have we got a deal for you.

    DR. Uki's patented DNA energizer! simply place this wonder of science "Light Frequency modulator" up the ol poop chute, and turn that useless DNA into super human ability! Why wait, our operators are standing by.

    *Not sold in stores or shops / vaseline and batteries not included.
    HAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Nice!
    "I am sexually attracted to cheese..." - Cartesiantheater
    "I am well versed in the theory of evolution." - Traveler

  20. #20
    Radioactive Serious Member MCR Freak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In Strawberry Fields
    Age
    23
    Posts
    78
    I thought the Black death killed one third of it's population?

  21. #21
    Radioactive Serious Member Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    73
    This is what I remember of pathophysiology class, with references to the good ol' notebook:

    Background: The plague has been responsible for at least 3 great pandemics and multiple epidemics in history. The first spread occurred from the Middle East to the Mediterranean basin during the fifth and sixth centuries A.D., killing approximately 50% of the population in these areas. The second pandemic afflicted Europe between the 8th and 14th centuries, destroying nearly 40% of the population. The third pandemic started in approximately 1855 in China, and, although it has been mostly controlled, it is still ongoing.

    Pathogen: Yersinia pestis
    Facultative anaerobic, intracellular, gram-negative bacillus.

    Vector: Most commonly Xenopsylla cheopis (Rat flea).
    Rodents resistant to the infection form an enzootic stage that ensures the long-term survival of the bacillus. Occasionally, the infected animals are not resistant to the disease and die. This is known as an epizootic stage and ensures the spread of the organism to new territory. A sylvatic stage occurs when humans are infected from wild animals.

    Transmission: Bacillus proliferates in the flea's esophagus, preventing food entry into the stomach. To overcome starvation, the flea begins a blood-sucking rampage. Between its attempts to swallow, the distended bacillus-packed esophagus recoils, depositing the bacillus into the victim's skin.

    Three forms of the plague exist: bubonic plague, pneumonic plague, and septicemic plague.

    Bubonic Plague: Involves the pathognomonic “bubo” and is caused by deposition of the bacillus in the skin by the bite of an infected vector. The bacillus invades nearby lymphoid tissue, producing the famous bubo, an inflamed, necrotic, and hemorrhagic lymph node. These would most often be observed in the inguinal region. Spread occurs along the lymphatic channels toward the thoracic duct, with eventual seeding of the vasculature. Bacteremia and septicemia ensue. The bacillus potentially seeds every organ, including the lungs, liver, spleen, kidneys, and rarely even the meninges.

    Pneumonic plague results from direct inhalation of the bacillus, which occurs from close contact of infected hosts or from aerosolized bacteria such as may occur if used as a biological weapon. A severe and rapidly progressive multilobar bronchopneumonia ensues with subsequent bacteremia and septicemia.

    Primary septicemic plague Occurs when the bacillus is deposited in the vasculature, bypassing the lymphatics. Early dissemination with sepsis occurs but without the formation of a bubo. This usually is observed in bites to the oral, tonsillar, and pharyngeal area and is believed to occur because of the vascularity of the tissue and short lymphatic distance to the thoracic duct. This type is the most likely candidate for many of the Genovese mentioned in the above reference.

    Treatment: A simple antibiotic regimen (Gentamicin, Chloromycetin, Doxycycline, Ciprofloxacin, Tetracycline, Co-trimoxizole) - is successful in approximately 85-99% of afflicted. Hospitalization and quarantine mandatory. All in contact must also be notified, screened, and monitored for 1-6 days from onset of symptoms in initial vehicle.

    The plague was often referred to as the Black Death because of the extreme cyanotic (blue) appearance of the corpses that had been affected. Therefore, I would not say that the two could be viewed as two separate afflictions.

  22. #22
    Lucky survivor Seasoned Member Rynotek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Durkadurkastan
    Age
    40
    Posts
    316

    Wizened old hag

    Well a new-age crusty chick, more or less the modern equivilent, tried to convince me that because of a fear of witches at the time, cats would be killed and therefore the rat population grew considerably allowing the plague to dig its heels in, this is a load of tosh i know, as it takes a good sized Jack russell to give a rat a run for its money, but i though it was a interesting spin on the whole thing.

    Refering to the HIV imunity, here is an articule in nature re: same.
    http://www.nature.com/news/2005/0503...050307-15.html

    chow
    10 green bottles sitting on the floor and i wish to Christ, i wish to Christ that i had 15 more.
    S McGowen: Boys from the county hell

  23. #23
    Radioactive Serious Member The Fallen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Void
    Posts
    97
    I personally believe that the plagues spread by rat fleas were the Goddess smiting down the overly Christian european continent. Hear me out before you start a flame war.

    Black cats have long been considered unlucky by christians, as witches in disguise, familiars, demons, etc. As such it was a common custom to kill black cats upon sight for fear that they were one of the aforementioned evil forces - it was seen as a christian duty to the world, and still is to some, (I talked to someone once who still kills black cats each chance they get - I so would have beat their ass had there not been cops nearby). The spread of this practice resulted in millions of cats being killed across Christendom - not just black ones, but even partly black ones, or not black at all.

    Now, what happens when a predator is removed from a foodchain? The population of the former foodsource grows - in this case, rats. Rats spreading disease carrying fleas.

    On to the Goddess part - cats are avatars of the Goddess, as evidenced in the Egyptian reverence for cats and the Goddess Bast. This was another reason black cats were considered unlucky and evil. So the Goddess took personal offense at this and smote the world.

    Im curious what others have to say to this.
    "Fame is fleeting. Infamy is eternal."
    "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Darkness."

  24. #24
    Leader of the bomb shelter Seasoned Member The Wicked Priest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Where the Buffalo roam
    Age
    38
    Posts
    930
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fallen View Post
    I personally believe that the plagues spread by rat fleas were the Goddess smiting down the overly Christian european continent. Hear me out before you start a flame war.

    Black cats have long been considered unlucky by christians, as witches in disguise, familiars, demons, etc. As such it was a common custom to kill black cats upon sight for fear that they were one of the aforementioned evil forces - it was seen as a christian duty to the world, and still is to some, (I talked to someone once who still kills black cats each chance they get - I so would have beat their ass had there not been cops nearby). The spread of this practice resulted in millions of cats being killed across Christendom - not just black ones, but even partly black ones, or not black at all.

    Now, what happens when a predator is removed from a foodchain? The population of the former foodsource grows - in this case, rats. Rats spreading disease carrying fleas.

    On to the Goddess part - cats are avatars of the Goddess, as evidenced in the Egyptian reverence for cats and the Goddess Bast. This was another reason black cats were considered unlucky and evil. So the Goddess took personal offense at this and smote the world.

    Im curious what others have to say to this.
    This is very true... except the church didn't deem them unlucky, they deemed them agents of the devil. And not just cats either... wolves, snakes, foxes, chickens and white cocks. To make matters worse, the church licensed doctors to kill cats and dogs in time of plague, thinking that this would halt infection.

  25. #25
    Radioactive Serious Member The Fallen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Void
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wicked Priest View Post
    This is very true... except the church didn't deem them unlucky, they deemed them agents of the devil. And not just cats either... wolves, snakes, foxes, chickens and white cocks. To make matters worse, the church licensed doctors to kill cats and dogs in time of plague, thinking that this would halt infection.
    My use of the term unlucky was a bleed-in to the modern religion-free superstition of black cats being unlucky.

    As to the other animals you point out, there are interesting coincidences:

    Wolves - with their ears and dog-like shape, the similarity to a jackal, the depiction of Anubis, one prominent God seen as a particular aspect of the Horned God, (in this case the horns being seen in the large, upright ears).

    Snakes - The most common water-bound avatar of the Goddess is a seasnake.

    Foxes - again, similar to the wolf thing.

    There was something else for the other two, but I am too tired to remember.

    ***goes to bed***
    "Fame is fleeting. Infamy is eternal."
    "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Darkness."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Monkey dead from bubonic plague in Denver
    By ryangti in forum Armageddon & Disasters
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 22nd, 2007, 8:17 PM
  2. 1st case of Bubonic Plague in USA.
    By Protostar in forum Armageddon & Disasters
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Apr 27th, 2006, 7:37 PM
  3. Looking down the throat of a black hole
    By dutchie in forum Sciences
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: Feb 26th, 2005, 1:17 PM
  4. Do black hole truly exist?...part 1...
    By Energy in forum Sciences
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Mar 17th, 2004, 11:27 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Site Meter