Is Capital Punishment a Solution?

**~~Solve et Coagula~~** · Dec 30th, 2006 4:53 AM

Is Capital Punishment a Solution?

"Capital punishment, the death sentence, is a frequent topic of discussion. Judges, psychiatrists and sociologists give us the statistics and talk about their observations and conclusions on radio and television programmes, and public opinion remains divided. Some think that the worst criminals should be executed so as to deter those who are tempted to imitate them; others retort that the fear of death has never deterred a criminal and, above all, that no human being has the right to decide the death of another. And so the debate goes on endlessly. Unfortunately, even the greatest authorities have no very clear ideas on the question, because their understanding of the structure of the universe and of human beings does not include the spiritual dimension.

Obviously, if you execute a criminal, society will be rid of him on the physical plane. Yes, but what people fail to realize is that he is still alive on the subtle planes, and on those planes his desire for destruction and revenge is as strong as ever. The desires of a criminal are not killed by the death of his physical body, because they don't belong to the physical plane. Once he is dead, therefore, a criminal becomes active on the astral and lower mental planes and the evil is amplified. His influence seeps into the minds and hearts of all those on earth whose criminal tendencies create an affinity with him, and through them he attempts to continue his evil work. In fact, he has even more scope after death for he is no longer limited by his physical body and can act through many different people. If people advocate capital punishment as a solution to the problem of crime, therefore, it is because they don't know that a criminal's spirit continues to be active after his death.

The same phenomenon occurs, of course, when a prophet or a great spiritual Master is assassinated: his ideas spread even more rapidly. In fact, this is why, when the criticism of an outspoken religious or political figure becomes an embarrassment to a government, and those in power are tempted to eliminate him, they know that they have to be very careful about how they do it. To make a martyr of a popular hero only serves to exacerbate the fury of his followers and make the position of his executioners even more precarious. They know that when you kill a man you don't kill his ideology, for others take it up and it becomes more vigorous than ever. You will say: "But that is only because his partisans or disciples are infuriated at the death of their leader and are fired with greater enthusiasm to carry on his work." There is some truth in that, of course, but it is an interpretation which remains on the surface of things.

The truth is that when the spirit of a prophet or an Initiate reaches the next world he continues to hold the same convictions and to nourish the same desire to enlighten human beings and help them to evolve. So he goes on with his work in conditions which give him a far better chance of propagating his ideas. This is why the death of certain Initiates did nothing to hinder their ideas from spreading. You only have to look at the extraordinary expansion of Christianity after the death of Jesus.

Criminals should not be punished by death, therefore, because of the consequences on the invisible plane. It is up to human beings to make sure that the conditions of life are such that there will be no more evil-doers. But as long as society is not built on true spiritual foundations it can only be a swamp, and swamps are always a breeding ground for mosquitoes... that is to say, criminals. In these conditions it is an illusion to think that justice can ever be done."

"Killing a person does not eradicate their ideology, because others will take it up and it will live on with even greater momentum. In the other world, the spirit of a prophet or a martyr continues to hold the same convictions, the same desire to enlighten human beings and to help them evolve. While he was on earth, it was not possible for him to meet everyone capable of taking in his ideas, because these people were too dispersed; but once on the astral plane, he is free to seek them out and influence them. This is why the death of certain Initiates can often enhance the propagation of their ideas.

By remaining on earth, of course, a Master can work, act, and serve as a model, but his influence is limited to a very small number of people: those who surround him, who approach him, who know him. But once disengaged from his physical body, he can rouse a far great number of spirits. This does not mean that he must have himself massacred in order to have more influence. No, but it is useful for you to know the laws governing the material and spiritual worlds. "

"When one kills a man, one destroys really only his prison: the physical body. If you think of being freed of somebody by killing him physically, you make a mistake. That is why the capital punishment is not a good solution; because it is as to break a bottle in which is contained a poison gas. If the bottle is broken, the poison spreads in the world and causes there the biggest damages. One guillotined for example a dangerous murderer; really one only killed his body, but his soul did not die. Now he turns out free in the invisible world, he is going to visit certain number of people, rather criminals as he. He tries to infiltrate in their head to suggest them the abominable projects which, because of his death, he had not yet been able to carry out, and so he produces more evil than when he was still in his body of flesh."

Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov

**lycanox** · Dec 30th, 2006 5:46 AM

I am pro death penalty.

I think we could better spend the money helping those that deserve to live,
Instead of jailing those bastards endlessly.

**Sgt Shaw** · Dec 30th, 2006 5:58 AM

Originally Posted by lycanox

I am pro death penalty.

I think we could better spend the money helping those that deserve to live,
Instead of jailing those bastards endlessly.

I agree with you; why keep those killing alive, when we could use the money to help people who need money survive?

**Perfectionist** · Dec 30th, 2006 11:08 AM

Hell yes CP is a solution ..... in fact in many ways, the Only solution

When there are millions of decent people starving to death around the world, who hardly anyone really gives a damn about ..... it's frikkin ridiculous that anybody would kick up a fuss about the death of some sick criminal scumbag ..... peoples priorities are funked ....

**Stabby Joe** · Dec 30th, 2006 11:26 AM

Some are given the option of jail or the army... at the rate we're going in Iraq, maybe it should just be the army.

...plus we should just shot them in the head instead of this costly chair or injection crap...

**plastik** · Dec 30th, 2006 4:12 PM

Murderers should be imprisoned; if they do it again, they should be killed. Everyone knows that if they did something stupid, they'd want another chance. So give them that chance to learn from their mistake, but if after being in prison they decide that they want to play games with the legal system and other people's lives, kill them.

**Perfectionist** · Dec 30th, 2006 5:25 PM

Why give a murderer a second chance ?!

Maybe if he was a Nobel Prize winning scientist who may find a cure for Cancer ..... otherwise what the funk is the point ??

Is it worth risking the life of another potential victim ..... just to give the scumbag another chance ??

***DontBeAfraid*** · Dec 30th, 2006 9:22 PM

You guys assume that no innocent person would ever be killed. And just so you all know given that we really dont like to execute innocent people its WAY MORE ******* EXPENSIVE to murder someone than it is to let them sit in jail.

**Perfectionist** · Dec 30th, 2006 10:44 PM

No it ain't ..... just let the sonofabitch starve to death in his cell .....

***DontBeAfraid*** · Dec 30th, 2006 11:01 PM

Knowing that innocent people will be murdered by this system; how do you justify it? And statistically its way more expensive to murder an inmate than to keep them for life. And if you really wanted to cut down on that cost (appeals and such) you would have to murder many more innocent people.

So in this system where we cheaply and quickly murder people, how are we any better than the people we condemn to death?

***donniedarko*** · Dec 31st, 2006 12:47 AM

Did anyone read the article? I don't understand where people come up with this stuff. Morally, I feel that the death penalty is warranted for those who take a life. I am an eye for an eye person. However, because complete proof is a near impossibility, better to imprison for life than execute and hope that further investigation doesn't reveal innocence. So in this case I will have to side with DBA, with the caveat, that in any cases of complete (read irrefutable) evidence, I feel that the death penalty is justly and duely warranted.

All that aside:

My major gripe is that prisoner's get a wage for work they do while in prison. This to me is ridiculous. Any work that is done by prisoner's is part of the penalty for breaking the law and all benefits of that labour should be used to improve the lot of the public, not the assholes who fucked up in the first place.

peace
dd

**Hardcoreflatland** · Dec 31st, 2006 1:22 AM

I think that the reason its not a good deterant is because our juducual system is too slow to carry it out. I think if people knew that they wouldent get jail time, but rather, killed within a week of conviction, murder rates would plummet. and when our country has huge debts piled against it, why should we waste our money keeping them alive on death row, or in prison for life.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Dec 31st, 2006 3:15 AM

I think if people knew that they wouldent get jail time, but rather, killed within a week of conviction, murder rates would plummet.

Which era in history do you think backs up this assertion?

When a person decides that they are going to kill someone cognition(this a word?) of their punishment for getting caught is not a part of the decision making process.

***jeffweeder*** · Dec 31st, 2006 4:05 AM

There would be a lot of criminals who wouldnt be afraid of death, and it is becoming evident in some minds that being killed or slaughtered, is a goal, the icing on the cake----even though its a huge lie.

I say life in prisonment, is a much worse penalty---A life in jail, suffering it through time, and death sooner or later is goin to come knockin anyway, so they get the worst from both worlds----just to be sure they get the point of their actions.

Its may be a good thing to see the penny drop for them keeping them alive!

Dont we all think that we deserve a second chance, if we expereince a moment of madness?
People do change and the penny does drop eventually. Keep em alive,---ITS up to the after life God anyway.

A lot of bad thoughts and radical imaginings exist in me, at times, and i have been known to over react. It only takes a moment to ruin everything- so far no damage done. Give people time.
I think we all share these energies, resonate with those nasty energies as well at times.? You understand yourself ?
People need to have love and understanding.
God is their final hurdle, and im confident he sees ,to do the right thing.

**lycanox** · Dec 31st, 2006 6:18 AM

Originally Posted by DontBeAfraid

Knowing that innocent people will be murdered by this system; how do you justify it? And statistically its way more expensive to murder an inmate than to keep them for life. And if you really wanted to cut down on that cost (appeals and such) you would have to murder many more innocent people.

So in this system where we cheaply and quickly murder people, how are we any better than the people we condemn to death?

If innocent people get the death penalty its the fault of the defence and faulty investigation. Not that of the death penalty itself. You can raise the same point over and over again until every villain gets free automatically because there is always an really slim chance they are innocent.

And the only reason why the death penalty is more expensive is because we wait several years before executing, spending thousands of dollars to death cells. You can bring down the cost to only 1.50 dollars by simply buying a knife at Wall-mart. and knife him down immediately after the appeal and dump the body at the glue or soap factory.

***DontBeAfraid*** · Dec 31st, 2006 8:08 AM

And the only reason why the death penalty is more expensive is because we wait several years before executing, spending thousands of dollars to death cells. You can bring down the cost to only 1.50 dollars by simply buying a knife at Wall-mart. and knife him down immediately after the appeal and dump the body at the glue or soap factory.

Actually its really expensive because we go to a great deal of trouble trying to be "sure" that we dont murder innocent people. So, how much money is ot ok to spend in an attempt to avoid murdering innocent people?

If innocent people get the death penalty its the fault of the defence and faulty investigation.

Innocent people being murdered in a court of law is a direct result of having a death penalty. You see, WITHOUT the death penalty these these people would not be murdered by the state. Its not a poor investigations fault that YOU condone the murdering of innocent people.

TC · Dec 31st, 2006 8:21 AM

Not to mention social standing and economics, you don't see a lot of wealthy and famous people on death row either. The poor suffer far more with a judicial system that protects high income individuals. For all the times I've been in traffic court and watched the rich walk with a slap on the wrist, and some working slob gets fined because they lack a big gun lawyer.

***donniedarko*** · Dec 31st, 2006 8:25 AM

I wonder at the people who suggest such inhumane methods of killing people. The goal is not meet them at their level but rather mete out just punishment without causing undue suffering. It's the same reason why we, as a society, do not condone torture.

A friend of mine volunteers for a prison literacy program and yeah, he meets alot of remorseless bastards who have done horrible things and seem to have no concern for their victims or their victims families. BUT, he has also met alot of well-meaning, reformed individuals who are ashamed of what they have done and would like nothing more than to be able to try and make up for it. It's easy to whitewash people as wholly evil. It's another thing to realize that the confrontationalist, litigationist society in which they are raised is AS responsible for their actions as they are.

**Perfectionist** · Dec 31st, 2006 2:05 PM

The prisons are full to the brim ..... criminals sue their victims while sitting in their cells ..... keeping a scumbag locked up costs approx £60,000 per year ..... a life sentence no longer actually means life, only 25 years which will be drastically reduced by a good appeal or good behaviour ..... a huge proportion of ex-cons re-offend within 12 months of being let out ..... etc etc

I have no problem with giving prison sentences to people who commit Fraud, Theft, Handling Stolen Goods etc etc

I'm talking about putting to death all the sick rapists, child molesters, funked-up murderers etc

In extreme cases like these, innocent people being convicted for the crime is very unlikely ..... and even if a few innocent people do die ..... it's more than made up for the fact that so many lives were saved by not letting these sick bastards slaughter another victim .....

Plus all the money saved could be spent on state health-care and education and more Police to catch these bastards in the first place .....

DBA - You're a Liberal ..... until you become a Victim .....

***Smoke*** · Dec 31st, 2006 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Perfectionist

The prisons are full to the brim ..... criminals sue their victims while sitting in their cells ..... keeping a scumbag locked up costs approx £60,000 per year ..... a life sentence no longer actually means life, only 25 years which will be drastically reduced by a good appeal or good behaviour ..... a huge proportion of ex-cons re-offend within 12 months of being let out ..... etc etc

I have no problem with giving prison sentences to people who commit Fraud, Theft, Handling Stolen Goods etc etc

I'm talking about putting to death all the sick rapists, child molesters, funked-up murderers etc

In extreme cases like these, innocent people being convicted for the crime is very unlikely ..... and even if a few innocent people do die ..... it's more than made up for the fact that so many lives were saved by not letting these sick bastards slaughter another victim .....

Plus all the money saved could be spent on state health-care and education and more Police to catch these bastards in the first place .....

DBA - You're a Liberal ..... until you become a Victim .....

I hate to say It but i agree, sick bastards need to die, why keep them alive when 60K a year could be spent on so much more,

approx. 2 million americans are stuffed into prision and that = alot of money in the end.

**Hardcoreflatland** · Dec 31st, 2006 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Perfectionist

The prisons are full to the brim ..... criminals sue their victims while sitting in their cells ..... keeping a scumbag locked up costs approx £60,000 per year ..... a life sentence no longer actually means life, only 25 years which will be drastically reduced by a good appeal or good behaviour ..... a huge proportion of ex-cons re-offend within 12 months of being let out ..... etc etc

I have no problem with giving prison sentences to people who commit Fraud, Theft, Handling Stolen Goods etc etc

I'm talking about putting to death all the sick rapists, child molesters, funked-up murderers etc

In extreme cases like these, innocent people being convicted for the crime is very unlikely ..... and even if a few innocent people do die ..... it's more than made up for the fact that so many lives were saved by not letting these sick bastards slaughter another victim .....

Plus all the money saved could be spent on state health-care and education and more Police to catch these bastards in the first place .....

DBA - You're a Liberal ..... until you become a Victim .....

I wish I could say I want them to live, but I don't. you hit the nail on the head. the really bad (murders, child molesters etc...) ones should be dealt with.

**Stabby Joe** · Dec 31st, 2006 3:01 PM

Theres also the notion of blame (IE WHY they did those things, bad past or adultery for example), regret and what if a family member were in that spot...

...but seriously, no one ever takes that in. We sound like the ones up for punishment in this thread with the whole "they need to die".

And another thing, ALOT of people on this forum are all up on the whole "evil government" thing and have mentioned "plans to arrest" etc etc. Is this a plan conspiricy buffs?

***DontBeAfraid*** · Dec 31st, 2006 7:01 PM

and even if a few innocent people do die ..... it's more than made up for the fact that so many lives were saved by not letting these sick bastards slaughter another victim .....

Even if that innocent person is you? Or perhaps your mother or father? Or your best friend? Be consistant now.

DBA - You're a Liberal .....

More and more socialist every day.

until you become a Victim .....

I love blanket(generalization)s.

The prisons are not stuffed full of the people you want to kill, they are full of victims of the war on drugs. You morons would do better to refocus the energy you spend wishing to murder people on trying to right that injustice.

**lycanox** · Dec 31st, 2006 11:02 PM

Well. either you will end up in jail. Or you end up death.
In both cases life is practically over. Only in the jail option you parasite on the common people.

Besides Crime mostly flourish in poor areas, if you spend the money that you saved on jailing on improving those areas, Crime-stats will automatically drop. Allowing the government to spend even more money on improving other poor areas and removing the criminals in richer areas. This way you get an circle that actually prevents crime to happen instead of dealing with it afterwards.

And whats wrong with the death penalty for drugs dealers. Hard drugs are a lot more damaging for an community than child molester and such.