If God wrote the bible.........

[Demonskates]

I was wondering. What if God wrote the bible, instead of man doing it. I wonder if it would make more sense. Like when you buy somthing, and it comes with directions. What good are the directions if you read English, and the directions are in Chineese?
With the bible, supposedly it is the owner manual for humans, and how to live life according to Gods laws. Why then is it so riddle filled? Every time God speaks in the bible, it is very direct and blunt. Yet when man got involved with writting the bible, it became a cluster **** of gibberish. Man cant take a simple direction without adding all kinds of interpretations to it. If God wants us to know how he expects us to live, why didnt he just write it himself? You know, remove the middle men from the editing process? (Like God would need an editor, hes God for pete's sake!)
Why did he leave it to people who would only make it harder to understand?

[Cartesiantheater]

Why did he leave it to people who would only make it harder to understand?

Several theories...

One, he is a sadistic asshole who wants to see people struggle...

Two, he is a sadistic asshole who wants most people to go to hell...

Three, he didn't write it because he does not exist...

Four, he didn't write it; it is HUMAN STORIES passed on orrally that are BASED on REAL encounters he had with a few choice humans (of all that include a belief in God, this one is the most likely in my opinion).

Five, he enjoys riddles.

Six, because he exists simultaneously in the past, present, and future, his way of thinking would be viewed as retarded from our perspective, because his mind would not have linear reasoning. Hence, the message that God was trying to get accross can never be completely translated because the language of God is not restriced to the same things that our language is (time and space- "The cat sat on the mat" requires that the existence of time and space are assumed). (I would consider this one another likely possibility, along with number four)

[loganosborne]

Why did he leave it to people who would only make it harder to understand?

There are loads of reasons you could come up with. One of many theories is that he didn't write the bible. Or maybe he just enjoys humans failing and suffering and then watching them go to hell.

[RhymnRzn]

I for one think the Holy Bible is awesome, and cannot find spot or blemish worth mention. The Word is cool. Man, enough good could not be said for the keys and recipes to be found in it. There is nothing spoken against it that I have found to be true: the Bible is the true bread from heaven.

Jesus said that we are in error if we do not know the Scriptures and power of God.

[Demonskates]

I for one think the Holy Bible is awesome, and cannot find spot or blemish worth mention. The Word is cool. Man, enough good could not be said for the keys and recipes to be found in it. There is nothing spoken against it that I have found to be true: the Bible is the true bread from heaven.

Jesus said that we are in error if we do not know the Scriptures and power of God.

Right, but wouldnt it make more sense to make it understandable to every one, and not just some?

[RhymnRzn]

In essence, the Book is perfect, and infallible: fit for situation (it says). If the Almighty didn't personally perform the word of the Book, then it would be insufficient for anything, let alone the ability to come back one time after another, and haunt some unjustified doubting.

[Demonskates]

In essence, the Book is perfect, and infallible: fit for situation (it says). If the Almighty didn't personally perform the word of the Book, then it would be insufficient for anything, let alone the ability to come back one time after another, and haunt some unjustified doubting.

Some may beg to differ. Some feel it is insuffcient to begin with. I feel myself anyway that it was inspired by God, but written by men. If God had written it, i think it would be much more direct. When a person has a question, they dont want riddles or parables. They want a concise answer. They want somthing that can be understood directly, not something that leaves room for hundreds of interpretations.
Most folks, who dont beleive, have not studied theology of the bible. I noticed its people who have studied the bible at length that seem to Gleen some understanding of what things mean. But if you ask a dozen people, all of whom have studied it at length, they all give diffrent answers, or diffrent translations.
People say the bible is infallible, but Myself, I feel that it is entirely fallible. Man cant do anything without adding in a piece or removing a piece from what is already there. Plus it was spoken word of mouth for years before it was ever put to pen and ink. SO how credible and infallible is somthing that has been edited and re edited by men for centuries? Even Christians cant decide between translations. Thats why there are so many sects of Christianity to begin with, all who claim they have the answer to salvation, and that any other way will lead you to ruin.
Wouldnt God want people to be unified in one belief in him? The bible is the very reason for all these divisions. That dosent sound infallible to me. That sounds like alot of folks guessing that they know what God wants. Im not trying to be a jerk or anything, these are questions that ive wondered about so i post them. I mean right in Genisis there are two very diffrent accounts of creation. I mean if it was written by God, there wouldnt be two varying accounts of creation.God would tell it like it is. Or in the new testament, when Christ was resurected, nobody seems to be able to get their stories to collaborate where and when they saw jesus on the road to Damascus. If I saw someone rose from the dead, id never forget it, or any details surrounding it. Those are just two of many inconsistancys in the bible.
Men make mistakes. If the bible was written by man, then it will contain mistakes.
I just think alot more folks would buy it if it wasnt such a mess of conflicting ideas.
If God is omnipotent, then he would forsee these things. The bible would not be set up how it is now. It would be clear. Not a cloudy fractured idea like it is. IMHO.

[Perfectionist]

The Bible may have been the word of God when it was originally transmitted ..... but after 2,000 years it's just a sad glimmer of it's former self .....

[jeffweeder]

Dont think the bible has changed at all. Have nothing but support from the dead sea scrolls.
And God actually did write those ten commandments with his own---ummm finger.

The whole lot was written because God wanted it written, and the people who wrote are all commendable and were told to write.
God said "WRITE WHAT YOU SEE AND HEAR- and they did.

Can you post anything that would show this to be totally human and incorrect.?

Can you say today that the predictions made in it are coming true-does it show any relevence at all?
What picture does it paint?

It harps on about these Jews that ultimately end up were the book puts their origins, and that the rest of the world will be against them.

The UN has passed more resolution against Israel by a very long shot...

It is reality, its staring you in the face, you would have to say that its fullfilment is viable.There is every chance that it is indeed God's word-because its all happening,as written.

Can anyone post something from the Bible that would show it to be totally false?

It is a powerful testamony of its people, and it lives.---"Ill be back"-and they are.

Im not the religous type, and i dont go to church, but...............its relevent.

[Traveler]

Let me tell you a little story

When I was still young and before I had been spirit filled I would pick up a Bible and I could not make head or tail out of it. My view of it was just the same as you have described. It was a closed book to me.

Many things happened that led me to the point where I became born again and spirit filled, but one of the greatest changes was the most noticable was how I was able to relate to the scriptures.

It was like a key had been given to me. I could pick up what had once been a dead book to me and it just all opened up without any conciouse effort on my part.

Suddenly this book was so absorbing I just could not put it down.

Now understand that this actually happened. If you look through the above posts you will see those that are able to gain great reward from reading this book and from others you will see that it is just empty to them.

There is a spiritual discernment attached to this book. Thats just the way it is! You can see this in action just by looking at the different reactions to it. You will find this with no other book.

The readers may like the story or dislike the story of other books. But they will all have a grasp of what the story line is about. With the bible it is either fully open or it appears to be disjointed confusion.

[jeffweeder]

It seems to have an answer to everything also.
What intrigues me is that it is Jewish history.
The Jews believe it is history.
Can anyone show me how else they could argue the borders of what they say is their own territory?


The fact is that this book exists, and if true, according to this book the Jews will return to their roots-because this God of theirs has -beyond any shadow of a doubt says that by him doing this thing with Israel-will show himself to be --real.
Its happened.

The story goes on to suggest that when the exodus back to the land starts, all nations will end up here-for the last battle- with sophisticated equipment to annilate life.

We have arrived at this point folks.

Its more complex than this though, much more so.
I believe i have a thousand reasons to believe it .
I dig and i always find a pearl.

[Demonskates]

Nice, Interesting responses. See I am on the fence about this. I know there are things that have happened, that were in fact, predicted by the bible. I guess its the way its been put together that makes me woneder about things within it.
To me, It just seems like it is hard to absorb alot of what is being said.

Why is there two very diffrent accounts of creation within the one book of Genisis?
Thats my biggest question. In one instance, God creates all BEFORE man. In the other, It claims man came first. Mabey its a minor detail and im digging too deep into it. But It still makes me wonder. Was it a misprint by man? Is it important?
What is that telling us? I mean thats pretty big if you ask me. If God wanted the Jews to know their origins,(along with all of mankind) wouldnt there be only one account? Any ideas on this would be greatly appreciated. Why do you think there are two accounts of creation?

[jeffweeder]

GEN 1
God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.

GEN 2
4 This[2][Lit These are the generations ] is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.
5 Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground.
7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

It doesnt strike me as being contradictory, its just more infomation being given.

It carries the story down to the 6th gen of cains descendants.
Adam lived to the 8th gen of seths descendants, so everything in it happened during Adams lifetime.

[Demonskates]

Man, now you've done it. You made me go and dust of the good book!

O.K. Gen.1:1 to Gen.2:4a scholars beleive was written while in baylonian captivity.
God creates everything, the heavans the earth, plant life, animals and finally man.

In Gen. 2:4b to gen. 2:25 the earth was void of life, plant animal or otherwise. then he makes man from ther dust of the earth,then the Garden, then animals, and finally Adams wife. Those sequences of events are very diffrent from one another.
The thing is, this account, according to scholars is an account predating the first one by several centuries. Mabey its just semantics. read and note the order of events. they are not the same. Mabey diffrent bibles present those accounts diffrently. I am using a NIV study bible here.
If the events differ from one another, that is the very deffinition of contradictory.
Like i said before, mabey its irrelevant. Im not trying to bash anyone. In fact this has become one of my more favorite threads as of late. When I ask questions, you dont hesitate to answer them, so I appreciate that.

[Demonskates]

Or was that just a dirty trick to make me pick up a bible.LOL!

[jeffweeder]

hahaha, sneeky little buggar arent I

GEN 2

5
Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted,

It was created (seed) on day 3, but needed the man to tend it and cultivate.

7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being[6][Lit soul ].
8 The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.
9 Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable[15][Lit corresponding to ] for him."
19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky[16][Lit heavens ], and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.

This is just saying God made the animals out of the ground, doesnt say when-besides the first chapter does lol

I doubt very much that there is a huge time gap between chap 1 and chap2.
There is about 11 documents associated with gen, put together by Moses.
This early part (pre flood) consist of Adams knowledge directly. had too-Adam knew Methusalah and he in turn knew Noah.

EX
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created,

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam.........

These are the records of the generations of Noah........
etc

All the way through the bible you see joshua ,samuel david etc all adding to the book.

[jeffweeder]

Ill try and put it another way then.

Genesis is a series of docs.(11)

There are 10 gen from Adam to Noah.
Who would know the generations of Adam better than anyone?.....Adam right. seriously how would Moses be sure of those events and geneologys 1000s+ years down the track,- if he didnt have some sort of written knowledge? how could you possibly remember all those boring details if it was handed down verbally?

We can account for his exodus history because he was there..

so those docs had to be available to him for him to write Gods history in what we know as Genesis.

Imagine if you were to take up the task of writing over a thousand years of genealogicol history......you would need records.

The bible does indeed come across as eyewitness accounts as that history was being played out.


who would know the events of the gen of noah?---Noah right.

And so it goes till you get to the last account by Malachi ,400 or so BC.

If you had to record this time of history- and wanted to be believed that you were an loyal historian,-would you personally leave a few stories out of the bible?-in order to be believed more?
-At first i would of.
Some of these stories come across as so unbelievable, if i didnt know better I would have left them out.

But these things are all recorded as Gods word- the onus is on you to believe what is difficult to believe---

How about Noahs prophecy of what would become of his sons?

ham-servant nations
shemites to preserve knowledge of true God
Japhetic races to be have the larger portion of the world,and believe on the shemitic God. Japhetic races have dominated the world and believed in the shemite God.
Japhetic races have dominated in history,
shemitic kept to themselves mainly
and hamitic races- a place of servitude.

Now thats a pretty descent account of history.

Dont know what im talking about?
Pick up the damn book--like Demonskates and see who these people / races are today.

has it not panned out this way- looking back

I should have posted this on the prophecy thread.

But this is not the case, he goes right ahead and accounts history as it was.

[Demonskates]

I guess that would make sense. Ive read that Exodus was never intended to be a separate book from Genisis. It was a continuation of a narative started in Genisis and finished in , Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Counting Exodus thats five books or the Pentateuch. I suppose you would have to have records to pull that off.
Plus 40 years in the desert would afford someone a good amount of time to write those five books.
Im not doubting that Moses wrote the bulk of the work, But the five books Also tend to have some others working on it as well. there are diffrent themes ect. that can be seen in the first five books. Which has lead alot of folks to view it as a collection of poems and laws ect.
Perhaps moses had a collection of these diffrent writtings, and incorperated them in his work?
Which would account for the sequence of events of creation being slightly diffrent from one another in Genisis.
When you leave somplace, you tend to take what you feel is important with you, In this case, the history of mans origins. I can picture him going over scrolls and scraps of paper which he had to then put in order and write one complete volume(which later became 5) that was continuous and made sense.

[jeffweeder]

I agree with most of that, but as i said i personally dont believe those 2 accounts of gen contradict each other, Its complementery.

In gen 1 its an overall view, where as in gen 2 the focus is on the man and the woman.

When you leave somplace, you tend to take what you feel is important with you, In this case, the history of mans origins. I can picture him going over scrolls and scraps of paper which he had to then put in order and write one complete volume(which later became 5) that was continuous and made sense.

I believe Adam would have told this story of creation (and who better to tell it) to his children and grand children until he took his last breathe.

What happens at family gatherings?
9 times out of ten-grandad will be telling those stories of when he was young etc etc etc.

What else was Adam going to say?

He would of told these stories over and over again, and being a contempery of Methusalah, and Methusalah being a contempery of Noah, not a chance of missing , or getting the pre flood history wrong in my opinion. It seems much to informative with all those records and its in the family .

I mean geez they have hung on to their identity even with that incredibley long exile-yet here they are dancing on their own turf again. ... Sensational stuff---Its no good for the world but....God has a plan....and its going to work.
He has had it written down and its working out ...isnt it?

[PheonixRIsing]

lol demonskates I feel the same way about Physics at school, I am talented and udnerstand much, but when I hit a roadblock I cant get around myself, I give up and call it stupid.(I am a sore loser). So essentially, instead of seeing an expert, I jsut give up and pout, saying its stupid because I cant understand it, and when I finally understand it, I love knowing about it. (I am a very stubborn person). Now for this point the best way to find out more about the Bible, is to go to a minister or preacher, or better yet if they dont speak your minds language, talk to God himself and ask for understanding, it always helped me.

As a side note. I don't feel Athiests/agnostics are dumb people, I think they are just as intelligent as any other person, I will go so far as to say that they are good people, but they do not escept because they do not undertstand the need to repent, in fact they dont need to repent, they just need salvation. Salvation, Repentance are very two different things, remember the rich young person who desired to follow Jesus, his fault was quickly pointed out. We all are humans who have faults, no ones perfect. All God wants to do is aid us in our growth, just like a teacher teaches his students. God naturally wants us to be dependent on him, sorta like your dad wanted you to be dependent on him, because then you would listen to him.

[Crescendo,cercando]

If i could, i would give a thumbs up to this topic.
I believe there is something special which has been discovered here.
so, even though i don't know what the thumbs up smiley is - how to do it i mean. Here's a thumbs up to this thread.

"And you shall find the truth and the truth will set you free"

[Traveler]

I first wrote this for another forum but have copied it here because it is appropriate for this subject.


A Different Type of Gift.


This is a story about the Lords provision for those who need it.

There was a ministry that operated in Harare that catered to those who were suffering from addictions and petty criminal behavior. Basically what used to happen was when some individual would fall short of the law the judge would send them to this place where they were given the opportunity to straighten their lives out as an alternative to a jail sentence.

As a ministry this produced a lot of good fruit and enabled Christ to provide the stability that many people lacked in their lives.

Anyway this story is about one individual that passed through these doors and who received a very special form of gift which also turned out to be a powerful witness for many and a great blessing to all those who were associated with this work.

This man was given the choice to attend this ministry after the judge found him guilty of assault. He was a very big man, very strong. But totally illiterate. He had a learning disability and could just not grasp the concept of letters. This set him up to be taken advantage of by others who would abuse him ruthlessly and exploit him no end. Naturally this led to frustration and in the end he decked someone with te result he ended up in court. Naturally he was not in any position to put up any form of organized defense and got shafted again.

While he was under the care of this ministry he did warm up to the things of the Lord and did try as best he could to develop spiritually. But being unable to read he had to rely on others to read the scriptures to him, when they had the time for this big stupid ox. Life was hard for someone with this type of disability.

One day the person who ran this ministry was walking past his room and there was this giant of a man sitting on the side of his bed weeping his hart out. Something that was quite out of character for someone who was always on the defensive and outwardly as hard as nails.

After a while this minister managed to calm this big man down to the point where he was able to ask him what he was crying about.

Slowly the big man picked up a new testament and flipped it open and began to read fluently. The astounded minister then gave him a newspaper to read but he was unable. When the bible was given back to him he could once again read fluently.

God had bestowed upon this individual the gift of the scriptures. God had given him the opportunity to study his word just like everybody else on an equal footing. He could read nothing else but he had been granted the opportunity to learn about the Lord through his written word and it was now up to him to press on in at his own pace without the need of help from others who would despise him for his inabilities.

[DontBeAfraid]

I first wrote this for another forum but have copied it here because it is appropriate for this subject.

What a cute little fairytale.

sorta like your dad wanted you to be dependent on him,

No good parent wants their children to remain dependant on them. The fact is that many fathers dont want any dependants at all. You know I support single mothers; one dollar bill at a time.

[Traveler]

Actually this was related to me by Lyle Myers, The paster of the bread of life ministries who was the guy that ran the place.

This is something that did in fact happen. My brother happened to be working there at the time so I got the full story. I have many stories like this.

The thing is that God does reveal himself but you will be the first to brush it off because you don't really want to hear it.

But others do!

[Sammy56]

Traveler, that story really doesn't make logical sense. If God is so great, why not work within logic. I don't get why on one hand people say God works in mysterious ways and then on the other makes obvious "miracles" happen. To me, "mysterious ways" means that you are left not being completely sure whether something supernatural happened or not, meaning you have to rely on faith. Miracles kind of make faith obsolete.